Gotta have one more go......
The fact that you thought ABS stops you quicker means you are not worth listening too Matt! ABS is a back-up system for an incompetent driver or a situation which has been created due to being off guard and slamming the brake. Same with ESP. even when driving all the Toyota 86's I have dríven which is about 5 different ones, I have always found driving without ESP A LOT more predictable than driving with it on. and at the end of the day would a more predictable car be safer? (Now just so what I have said about the 86's ESP can't be taken out of context i will give some points here. The 86 is a low HP, low weight car which means in never has enough power to surprise you as a driver, very similar to an mx. I'm sure the use of ABS on in a high HP car is a completely different ball-game.)
So this is a road car so i'm not wanting to pull out the whole system as such I just don't want the ABS to kick in, I find it very upsetting when driving hard and i'm not used to it as both cars i've owned so far a pre 1992.
From your very first post you are saying you are finding that the ABS is kicking in when driving hard, so that tells me and others you are driving on public roads where you are at and beyond the maximum braking ability of your car.....
I did a mountain run the other day and i find it kicks in even when you aren't fully on the point of braking traction, like I could start to feel the pedal giving some small bumps (not as vigorous as when you completely slam on the brakes) but i knew there was a lot more in the tyres before they were going to break traction.
From your second post..... I don't know too many race tracks around a mountain up here that allow access at any time that I would call a controlled environment.
If you read what I said earlier.....
I have never said that ABS will stop a car quicker than threshold braking. ABS is a great safety system in that even when you have the brakes pressed at 10 out of 10 and the ABS has kicked in you will still have steering, something you don't have without ABS and a locked wheel.
WOW you've dríven 5 Toyata 86's, well I've only ever dríven one so you win, but to win the pissing competition, I did spend some time driving a 55AMG SLK, I have owned around 20 cars of varying performance but mostly quick 4's, both NA and turbo, plus some quick 6's and a couple of V8's.
ESP is there to help keep the car on its intended path by controlling the braking force on each wheel and/or the amount of power supplied to the dríven wheels, again if you are finding this is hindering your on road driving you are doing it wrong..... Underpowered or overpowered car.
On a track, well then there are some advantages to having the ESP not as intrusive or switched off.
As for my driving ability, I'll back it any day, as I also said, I am always learning how to drive better on the road and quicker on the track. I am lucky I get plenty of seat time in a controlled environment to practice all facets of my driving from basics such as posture and steering techniques through to controlling slides and emergency stops. My driver training has never stopped and I consider myself lucky that I was mentored by some great competition drivers in my teens who encouraged me to start driving on the track and get into competition driving, where I learnt a hell of a lot in terms of high performance driving skills that I don't use on the road, but also other skills that are needed on the road to be a better driver. The most important skill being vision, being able to read what is happening ahead and from that being a smoother driver for me and my passengers.
And now to answer a couple of questions on ABS.......
First, which will stop in the shorter distance, ABS or Threshold??????Threshold braking will, but to do so is very difficult and takes a lot of practice to know the car well and also to obtain the skill and feel for your car to do it well, jump in another car and it will brake differently.
As it implies, threshold braking is using sufficient force to have the maximum braking force without locking the wheels, but being on the verge of locking the wheels. This provides the maximum grip between the tyre and road surfaces, therefore the highest levels of friction and the shortest possible distance to stop the vehicle.
With ABS, no matter what system, it allows the wheels to lock for a period of time. Early and cheaper systems this maybe for up to a 10th of a second or even longer depending on the electronic brain and the capabilities of the system to release brake pressure to the affected wheel and then reapply brake pressure. Also how many channels the ABS has, early falcon systems had 3 channel systems where the front brakes where individually controlled, but the rear brakes were both released if a rear wheel locked. In doing this the stopping distance will be longer than non ABS, as the brake pressure is constantly changes from full pressure, released and reapplied, depending the system from say 5 times a second to 30 times a second for high end vehicles.
In the real world with a car in good condition on a dry road with a good constant surface with a high skid resistance the distances from longest to shortest will generally be:
1. Locked brakes - car slides along the road, in conditions described above for a lot of cars only a couple of metres longer in a straight line
2. Lock and release - lock brakes, release some pressure to get wheels rolling again, generally not much shorter than full lock and slide, and if done with not a lot of skill can be a longer stopping distance than locked brakes.
3. ABS - In an emergency, what I would go for, don't have to think about my braking, let the technology do the work for me to pull up pretty quickly. I also have the biggest advantage that I will always have steering and basically full control on where the car will go.
4. Threshold braking - done well, will pull up a metre or two shorter than an ABS stop, but very hard to pull off properly. In an emergency situation you will find that you are overloaded with information and also panic so that it becomes very difficult to execute the braking with the finesse needed.
5. Good vision and awareness - use this, know what going on around you and ahead, don't just look at the car in front, look as far up the road as you can to see what is going on, keep a 2 second gap, more in bad conditions or if you have loaded the vehicle up with extra weight or you are driving an older car or 4WD set up more for off road than highway. With this you will see the situation and be able to make your decision in plenty of time and not need to worry about emergency stopping techniques.
In wet conditions the order is the same, but the distances are exaggerated greatly.
What does pulling the ABS fuse do????As discussed in the thread, pulling the ABS fuse disables the ABS system. As the brakes are a mechanical system the usual operation of the brakes isn't affected, including the brake bias as determined by the factory or user depending on the components used and whether they have been modified.
What the ABS does is monitor the wheel speeds and if one wheel stops rotating whilst others are still rotating will send a signal to release the brake pressure to the brake controlling the wheel that has stopped rotating. Once the wheel rotates again, then the computer allows the full pressure as applied by the brake pedal to be applied to that brake again.
The ABS doesn't affect the performance of the mechanical braking system until it sensors a wheel has locked up. If the ABS is disconnected then the brakes will work as normal, just when a wheel stops rotating then there is nothing happening within the brake system to release the brake pressure so the wheel or wheels will lock.
But hey what do I know???? I'm just some old bloke with issues........
Those issues include:
Watching mates in the emergency services trying to cope with mental health issues from the carnage they see through stupidity on the roads.
Having lost a couple of mates at high school in car crashes.
Seeing families torn apart by someone else's actions on the road.
Seeing stupidity on the roads that just shouldn't be happening and could be easily fixed with a decent driving education system where getting a licence is a privilege rather than a right.
Government agencies taking the easy way out with road safety rather than tackling the lack of skill of most drivers.
I know young blokes are "young, dumb and full of cum" but doing the right thing on the road, ie not driving like a dick and taking it to the track to go your hardest is what you should be doing. Up here in Brisbane we are so lucky to have the easiest access to track time at QR and Lakeside, bugger all hoops to jump through, just fill out a form pay your moneys and you can play and go as fast as you want and discover how much talent you actually have as a driver.
shock horror! It made the world of difference and now the braking response is much more linear than before over undulating surfaces and I can brake much harder with any unnecessary electronic interruption. I've been driving like this for almost a year and I have no regrets. Forget spending all your money on everything else people are suggesting just pull the fuse and try it.
Maybe I can get my other half to leave later and bring the trailer so I can drive...
