I want to remove ABS

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angusis2fast4u
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby angusis2fast4u » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:49 pm

emily_mx5 wrote:Before removing the most amazing piece of technology and the only real 'safety' driving aid on the mx5, try some other things first.

Try bleeding the brakes, and making sure all the abs sensors are working, replace brake pads if they are worn, check rotors for warps and thickness, check calliper piston seals/check if seized.
Check suspension, is it old worn out oem? Or maybe some insane 14kg/mm rated coilovers. Both of these would be a problem.
Tyres - remaining tread, compound and age.
If you have old shitty Eco tyres, they let the whole braking system down, replace with new decent tyres, wheel alignment and correct tyre pressure.


All of that is in good condition, I have Re002's.

Coilovers are 7kg/6kg

Yet to check sensors
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby lizard » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:50 pm

angusis2fast4u wrote:
lizard wrote:
MattR wrote:Angus, I have had just enough to drink to respond to your post.......

First, when do you do these mountain runs, as you will pass my place and I want to make sure I'm not on the road when you are, could you give me notice when you are heading out. If you are driving on a public road hard enough that the ABS is kicking in, or because your suspension is so bad that it feels like it is kicking in, then you are doing it wrong, end of story..... Do some track days if you want to drive fast, don't drive around my place and where I drive as a feckstick!!! I quite enjoy a slow run up the hill at the speed limit on a nice cool morning, I don't need some idiot coming up behind me at warp factor or coming the other way crossing the lines because they are going too quick for the road.

Second, you will make your car unroadworthy and up for big fines if you do this to a registered car, as well as have your insurance company, if you are insured, will wipe you completely. I do not want to be the bunny who is chasing you for dollars when you run into me on one of your "mountain runs". I suppose I could always send around some motorcycle enthusiast friends to get the dollars to fix my car after you run into it..... :lol: :roll:

Third, one driving course where you nailed 4 threshold braking stops does not make you a gun driver. I do many threshold braking stops in a controlled environment most days I am working in my part time job, do I brake that way on the road???? No fecking way, threshold braking is an emergency procedure, better to use my vision to not need to use the emergency braking in the first place.

Four, the ABS is one of the best safety features that has been used in the automotive industry since seatbelts, why the feck would you want to disconnect it????? If you use the brakes properly and can modulate the pressure through the brake pedal to provide the correct force for close to threshold braking you won't have the ABS kick in.

Fifth, uneven road surfaces will cause the wheel behavior you described with one wheel not locking and the wheel on the other side having the ABS kick in on the rough surface. disconnecting the ABS will cause the wheel to lock and you won't have the skill to modulate the brake pedal so the wheel doesn't lock and still provide maximum braking. Again you should be using your vision to be aware of this and braking appropriately that you are not using brake pressures close to near threshold braking.

So in summary......
Don't disconnect the ABS, it is illegal, you aren't the gun driver you think you are, and I don't want you driving anywhere near me or my loved ones if you are using threshold braking on the road.......




Matt he is 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless


Actually if you read where Sailaholic gave me useful advice I said I would look over all other systems before I pulled the fuse, I do genuinely believe the ABS system is coming in earlier than it should as it does like to kick in under mildly hard braking, and everything is there, new pads, rotors are good, Re002's and coilovers, which I will look into first

I don't know where you get such an attitude from. I'm willing to listen I just wanted a good reason

Pretty much this thread in short. I complained the other night to someone that I felt ABS kicking in too early and he said pull the fuse, and made it seem like doing that had no repercussions to any other feature of the car. I started this thread to ask a very simple question and sailaholic answered it in like the 3rd post so as far as I'm concerned it's over.

Now I just have to put up with all these "people" who believe driver aids are the best thing since sliced bread[/quote]

Must have been right in the first place :roll: 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless

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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby angusis2fast4u » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:56 pm

lizard wrote:
angusis2fast4u wrote:
lizard wrote:
MattR wrote:Angus, I have had just enough to drink to respond to your post.......

First, when do you do these mountain runs, as you will pass my place and I want to make sure I'm not on the road when you are, could you give me notice when you are heading out. If you are driving on a public road hard enough that the ABS is kicking in, or because your suspension is so bad that it feels like it is kicking in, then you are doing it wrong, end of story..... Do some track days if you want to drive fast, don't drive around my place and where I drive as a feckstick!!! I quite enjoy a slow run up the hill at the speed limit on a nice cool morning, I don't need some idiot coming up behind me at warp factor or coming the other way crossing the lines because they are going too quick for the road.

Second, you will make your car unroadworthy and up for big fines if you do this to a registered car, as well as have your insurance company, if you are insured, will wipe you completely. I do not want to be the bunny who is chasing you for dollars when you run into me on one of your "mountain runs". I suppose I could always send around some motorcycle enthusiast friends to get the dollars to fix my car after you run into it..... :lol: :roll:

Third, one driving course where you nailed 4 threshold braking stops does not make you a gun driver. I do many threshold braking stops in a controlled environment most days I am working in my part time job, do I brake that way on the road???? No fecking way, threshold braking is an emergency procedure, better to use my vision to not need to use the emergency braking in the first place.

Four, the ABS is one of the best safety features that has been used in the automotive industry since seatbelts, why the feck would you want to disconnect it????? If you use the brakes properly and can modulate the pressure through the brake pedal to provide the correct force for close to threshold braking you won't have the ABS kick in.

Fifth, uneven road surfaces will cause the wheel behavior you described with one wheel not locking and the wheel on the other side having the ABS kick in on the rough surface. disconnecting the ABS will cause the wheel to lock and you won't have the skill to modulate the brake pedal so the wheel doesn't lock and still provide maximum braking. Again you should be using your vision to be aware of this and braking appropriately that you are not using brake pressures close to near threshold braking.

So in summary......
Don't disconnect the ABS, it is illegal, you aren't the gun driver you think you are, and I don't want you driving anywhere near me or my loved ones if you are using threshold braking on the road.......




Matt he is 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless


Actually if you read where Sailaholic gave me useful advice I said I would look over all other systems before I pulled the fuse, I do genuinely believe the ABS system is coming in earlier than it should as it does like to kick in under mildly hard braking, and everything is there, new pads, rotors are good, Re002's and coilovers, which I will look into first

I don't know where you get such an attitude from. I'm willing to listen I just wanted a good reason

Pretty much this thread in short. I complained the other night to someone that I felt ABS kicking in too early and he said pull the fuse, and made it seem like doing that had no repercussions to any other feature of the car. I started this thread to ask a very simple question and sailaholic answered it in like the 3rd post so as far as I'm concerned it's over.

Now I just have to put up with all these "people" who believe driver aids are the best thing since sliced bread[/quote]

Must have been right in the first place :roll: 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless


Aren't you the guy who thought washing a car with Morning fresh was a good idea? Tell me more you obviously know what you are talking about!
~Angus
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby lizard » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:00 pm

angusis2fast4u wrote:
lizard wrote:
angusis2fast4u wrote:
lizard wrote:
MattR wrote:Angus, I have had just enough to drink to respond to your post.......

First, when do you do these mountain runs, as you will pass my place and I want to make sure I'm not on the road when you are, could you give me notice when you are heading out. If you are driving on a public road hard enough that the ABS is kicking in, or because your suspension is so bad that it feels like it is kicking in, then you are doing it wrong, end of story..... Do some track days if you want to drive fast, don't drive around my place and where I drive as a feckstick!!! I quite enjoy a slow run up the hill at the speed limit on a nice cool morning, I don't need some idiot coming up behind me at warp factor or coming the other way crossing the lines because they are going too quick for the road.

Second, you will make your car unroadworthy and up for big fines if you do this to a registered car, as well as have your insurance company, if you are insured, will wipe you completely. I do not want to be the bunny who is chasing you for dollars when you run into me on one of your "mountain runs". I suppose I could always send around some motorcycle enthusiast friends to get the dollars to fix my car after you run into it..... :lol: :roll:

Third, one driving course where you nailed 4 threshold braking stops does not make you a gun driver. I do many threshold braking stops in a controlled environment most days I am working in my part time job, do I brake that way on the road???? No fecking way, threshold braking is an emergency procedure, better to use my vision to not need to use the emergency braking in the first place.

Four, the ABS is one of the best safety features that has been used in the automotive industry since seatbelts, why the feck would you want to disconnect it????? If you use the brakes properly and can modulate the pressure through the brake pedal to provide the correct force for close to threshold braking you won't have the ABS kick in.

Fifth, uneven road surfaces will cause the wheel behavior you described with one wheel not locking and the wheel on the other side having the ABS kick in on the rough surface. disconnecting the ABS will cause the wheel to lock and you won't have the skill to modulate the brake pedal so the wheel doesn't lock and still provide maximum braking. Again you should be using your vision to be aware of this and braking appropriately that you are not using brake pressures close to near threshold braking.

So in summary......
Don't disconnect the ABS, it is illegal, you aren't the gun driver you think you are, and I don't want you driving anywhere near me or my loved ones if you are using threshold braking on the road.......




Matt he is 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless


Actually if you read where Sailaholic gave me useful advice I said I would look over all other systems before I pulled the fuse, I do genuinely believe the ABS system is coming in earlier than it should as it does like to kick in under mildly hard braking, and everything is there, new pads, rotors are good, Re002's and coilovers, which I will look into first

I don't know where you get such an attitude from. I'm willing to listen I just wanted a good reason

Pretty much this thread in short. I complained the other night to someone that I felt ABS kicking in too early and he said pull the fuse, and made it seem like doing that had no repercussions to any other feature of the car. I started this thread to ask a very simple question and sailaholic answered it in like the 3rd post so as far as I'm concerned it's over.

Now I just have to put up with all these "people" who believe driver aids are the best thing since sliced bread[/quote]

Must have been right in the first place :roll: 18 years old " P " plater so he knows everything and wont take advice so this post is useless


Aren't you the guy who thought washing a car with Morning fresh was a good idea? Tell me more you obviously know what you are talking about!



I tend take no notice or advice from boys under 20 and never proven wrong so your no exception :wink:

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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby MattR » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:21 pm

Well driver aids are the best thing since sliced bread for the road, why because they are safety systems that all drivers can take advantage of.....

Are they the best thing for track only cars, well top end race cars maybe not, track day cars used for sprints where the owners are just starting out and don't have a lot of experience, yep they still are......

I'm in a feisty mood tonight so I'll bite.....

ABS kicking in is due to the shitty surface of the road and not the fact that that the car is on the breaking point of traction. Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's right.


Ah no, the ABS is kicking in because you are applying sufficient pressure to cause a wheel to lock as the friction of the tyre to the road surface has exceeded the available grip of the tyre, so therefore the tyre must be at the point where it cannot rotate anymore due to the clamping force of the brakes. To alleviate this you must release some pressure from the brakes. The ABS does this. If you didn't have ABS you would have a tyre that is sliding across the road surface producing smoke and noise. To stop this you would have to manually release some pressure from the braking system, reducing the braking force on the other three wheels. To be driving in this manner on the road, basically you are driving too fast for the conditions, or the road.

And physics don't lie.....

My NA6 was road worthy and didn't have ABS... Go figure..
And I don't think insurance will void insurance over a blown fuse.

Your NA6 wasn't supplied with ABS so no issue there, your NB was factory fitted and complied for use on Australian roads, so big problem there regarding roadworthyness and insurance if you disable the ABS.

Just like ESP, ABS can be worse in CERTAIN situations, so don't give me your feel bad story that's full of bs

Yes I agree, on an unsealed road ABS provides a longer stopping distance than locking up in a straight line, however lock your brakes you have no control over what the car will do or go, the ABS will allow you to steer the vehicle. Again sensible driving to the conditions should mean that this would be encountered in an emergency situation only.

Never said I practiced threshold braking in a non-controlled environment? You seem to be jumping to conclusions, but don't worry as an Australian I have learnt to put up with ignorant people so I won't jump down you're throat with abuse


Well......
So this is a road car so i'm not wanting to pull out the whole system as such I just don't want the ABS to kick in, I find it very upsetting when driving hard and i'm not used to it as both cars i've owned so far a pre 1992.

Sounds like driving on the road to me, so not a controlled environment.......

Mate you are A road user not THE road user, safety is paramount for EVERYONE not JUST you and YOUR loved ones, A) don't be so greedy and think that only yor loved ones are the important ones on the road and B) get off your high horse, no one is a perfect driver, EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time, and through the way you have wrote you comment you seem to think you a lot better than a lot of other people on the roads. This selfish way of thinking ruins the car community and quite frankly Australia.


Yep I am A road user, but if you are doing "touge" runs it would be nice to know when, I hear enough ambos and firies driving past my place under lights and sirens going to scrape someone else off the hill each night that I like to increase my chances of survival.....

No, no one is a perfect driver and yes we all make mistakes, but I am a better driver than most, and I am still learning how to drive better and the day I stop learning is the day I have stopped driving.

What's selfish in my thinking of wanting my loved ones and other people to be able to use the roads safely, it's those driving on a public road as if it is a race track that are the selfish ones.....

Just such a plain disrespectful answer. When the thread was about me not being used to ABS and not feeling comfortable (because I am not used to my pedal pulsating at me) when I have dríven older cars my whole life without all these driver aids which were designed for people who have no interest of learning how to drive a car in extreme circumstances...

If I was disrespectful well sorry, but your original and subsequent posts read as that you want to disconnect the ABS because it is kicking in "too early" ABS doesn't kick in too early, ABS only operates when the wheels are locking, that means you are braking too hard. If it is because of an emergency situation then it has done its job and you still had steering. If you are getting the ABS to kick in all the time, then you are braking too hard, and sorry if this offends, and not driving very well.

If you are serious about improving your driving abilities, come out to the track days, I, and I am sure others, will be more than happy to provide some tuition on how to get the best out of you and your car in a controlled environment.

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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby roket52 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:12 pm

Hi Angus, I got tired of all the whining in this thread so I thought I'd chime in and help you out with your answer.. I wondered the same thing as you about the abs kicking in too early on undulating surfaces, so guess what I tried?.. Pulling the fuse :shock: shock horror! It made the world of difference and now the braking response is much more linear than before over undulating surfaces and I can brake much harder with any unnecessary electronic interruption. I've been driving like this for almost a year and I have no regrets. Forget spending all your money on everything else people are suggesting just pull the fuse and try it.
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby manga_blue » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:27 pm

roket52 wrote:Hi Angus, I got tired of all the whining in this thread so I thought I'd chime in and help you out with your answer.. I wondered the same thing as you about the abs kicking in too early on undulating surfaces, so guess what I tried?.. Pulling the fuse :shock: shock horror! It made the world of difference and now the braking response is much more linear than before over undulating surfaces and I can brake much harder with any unnecessary electronic interruption. I've been driving like this for almost a year and I have no regrets. Forget spending all your money on everything else people are suggesting just pull the fuse and try it.
I thought it would be barely driveable. Does anyone know what the brake bias is like and how it works on an ABS NB when the ABS is off?

Question for you roket52 ... take your car up to a quiet bit of road, bring it up to 50-60kmh and then squeeze the brake pedal harder and harder until a wheel locks. Does it lock at the back or the front first?
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby roket52 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:55 pm

Magna with the hard braking that I have done I have noticed no ill effects in the bias which tells me that it has more front bias than rear as per standard otherwise I would have noticed the rear of the car unsettle a long time ago. I was quite surprised when I first tried it to find that it simply just deactivated the abs. It feels as if no other braking traits have changed before the fuse pull which was exactly what I was trying to achieve
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby Nevyn72 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:02 am

I've only ever had the ABS go off on my car once, driving through a dip diagonally into a servo driveway, and not particularly quickly at that...... :|

Otherwise, I've tried a few times, including during the test drive before buying my car, but the car just, errrrrr...... stopped. You'd really have to be going pretty hard to need it, which is the time you really do need it, so leave it plugged in, everyone (including your insurance company) will be happier!
I suspect your issues are more related to the eBay 'Yellowspeeds' under your car and be changing them out first. :wink:
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby manga_blue » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:22 am

So maybe there's a built-in bias in the ABS system that acts as a sort of fail-safe if the control system karks it?
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby angusis2fast4u » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:57 am

roket52 wrote:Hi Angus, I got tired of all the whining in this thread so I thought I'd chime in and help you out with your answer.. I wondered the same thing as you about the abs kicking in too early on undulating surfaces, so guess what I tried?.. Pulling the fuse :shock: shock horror! It made the world of difference and now the braking response is much more linear than before over undulating surfaces and I can brake much harder with any unnecessary electronic interruption. I've been driving like this for almost a year and I have no regrets. Forget spending all your money on everything else people are suggesting just pull the fuse and try it.


THANK YOU!

Some one with an answer (which is what I asked for, not an opinion) and not some old drunk person trying to share a view which i could not care less about! (it's good to have some responsible people on a forum to keep everyone in check, but Matt you actually just have no clue and seem to just want to blame some issues of yours on anyone who likes going on mountain runs.)

Seriously Matt I think i'll vomit if I see you're name on the forum, you obviously have no idea hey, can't even read what i'm saying and respond effectively and the fact you consider yourself a "much better driver than most" seems a bit up there on the self importance.

Nevyn72 wrote:I've only ever had the ABS go off on my car once, driving through a dip diagonally into a servo driveway, and not particularly quickly at that...... :|

Otherwise, I've tried a few times, including during the test drive before buying my car, but the car just, errrrrr...... stopped. You'd really have to be going pretty hard to need it, which is the time you really do need it, so leave it plugged in, everyone (including your insurance company) will be happier!
I suspect your issues are more related to the eBay 'Yellowspeeds' under your car and be changing them out first. :wink:



As stated earlier, I will look into my "Yellowspeeds" before trying this, I will probably chuck in the stock shocks for a good comparison of the two (also to see if suspension is causing the issue i'm having). (and thank you for a good, respectful response)

Also as i've stated before but Matt seems unable to read so i will post again:

I have never NEEDED the ABS system, i have simply tested the system, to learn the limit of braking so I know the limits for if I ever did need to brake hard, and I am yet to come across this situation. and a quiet empty road late at night is a controlled environment with very minuscule risk believe it or not (i'm not talking about a twisty mountain road, i'm talking about a flat surface area with good visability). and I would legitimately be surprised if people here did not learn the limits of their car after purchasing them recently?

ALSO in response to the people before who think driver aids are the best thing since sliced bread this is a great little article I found on Google just now by doing a simple google search about how you can stop quicker without ABS http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=357416 (there's even a great little diagram to explain why i'm correct if you scroll down enough)

The fact that you thought ABS stops you quicker means you are not worth listening too Matt! ABS is a back-up system for an incompetent driver or a situation which has been created due to being off guard and slamming the brake. Same with ESP. even when driving all the Toyota 86's I have dríven which is about 5 different ones, I have always found driving without ESP A LOT more predictable than driving with it on. and at the end of the day would a more predictable car be safer? (Now just so what I have said about the 86's ESP can't be taken out of context i will give some points here. The 86 is a low HP, low weight car which means in never has enough power to surprise you as a driver, very similar to an mx. I'm sure the use of ABS on in a high HP car is a completely different ball-game.)

----------------------------

manga_blue wrote:So maybe there's a built-in bias in the ABS system that acts as a sort of fail-safe if the control system karks it?


Fuses do blow from time to time, So I don't see why a manufacturer would make a car an effective death trap because a fuse blew? plus in a lot of European countries and some parts of the states a lot of people would need to pull fuses when winter comes, which is probably the reason why it only takes one fuse to disable "such an amazing, necessary feature"


Pulling a Fuse should not get such a violent response, It could have actually been a very good educational thread on ABS and its effects but some people seem to have opinions which they cannot help sharing, and subsequently have ruined what could have been a really good thread with good information.
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby gslender » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:28 am

This forum has a high concentration of the Nanny-State voters... yah for rules!
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby Magpie » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:04 am

Give a motorcyclist a winding, mountain corner and they're in hog's heaven but sadly it comes with a price. Over the past 12 years, there have been 887 motor cycle accidents at Mt Glorious and Mt Nebo.
http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2014/04/campaign-to-reduce-motorbike-fatalities-on-mt-nebo-and-mt-glorious.html.

I have had the displeasure of being at Automotive Plus one Saturday where a white MX5 had crashed on the Mt Glorious road, not pretty, driver ok car not.

It would appear that ABS on here is like uraniumn, it is polarising and it will never be solved at least on a forum. Simply we as drivers on public roads and the track for that matter drive to suit conditions. Tracks have no speed limits but that does not imply they are safe.

Like or dislike ABS it is a technology that has remained and not been a fad like 4 wheel steering. I have a day off today so time to find some empirical evidence on ABS and threshold braking.
Last edited by Magpie on Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby JBT » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:06 am

angusis2fast4u wrote:ABS is a back-up system for an incompetent driver or a situation which has been created due to being off guard and slamming the brake. Same with ESP.

Your ignorance is breath taking.

angusis2fast4u wrote:It could have actually been a very good educational thread on ABS and its effects but some people seem to have opinions which they cannot help sharing, and subsequently have ruined what could have been a really good thread with good information.

Yes, it could have....but not for you.
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Re: I want to remove ABS

Postby The American » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:20 am

Angus, if your dampers are really no good, you might be experiencing something caused by wheel tramp, and not premature ABS lock up. ABS would likely operate during wheel tramp, but the cause might be damper related rather than overly aggressive braking. If you're braking on a less than smooth surface, a dampers job is to prevent the wheel from bouncing clear of the road. If the damper isn't up to the job, the wheel can start to bounce. It's not uncommon to see wheels on truck trailers doing this when pulling up.

+ 1 for not disabling ABS on public roads. On the track, ABS is flat spot insurance (although good to learn to threshold brake without it). Maybe try with and without ABS via the fuse at your next track day. In the autotest events I've done, the ABS cars had a much easier time getting stopped in the 'garage' and non-ABS cars were much more likely to skid through and incur a 'Wrong Way'.

+ 1 for not finding the limits on public roads. If you're really at the limit, you will run off the road from time to time. On a track, this still comes with risks, but not to unsuspecting road users.

+ 1 for asking questions and learning about your machine.


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