Tyre Choice for 2015 Club Track Days Lakeside and Willowbank

[Red_Bullet]

Tyre Choice for 2015 Club Track Days Lakeside and QR Willowbank

Ok, It's time to bite the bullet and move up to RSpec Tyres, the Dunlop Direzza Z11's were getting a bit
slippery/ front understeer/worrying at Lakeside last Monday (had a couple moments). This has been my first
year in running sprints.

Car Details

Car 1994 NA8 Supercharged 140 RWKW
Tien Steet Flex Coilovers
Enkei RPF1 15*7 et35

Car (on the Direzza Z11's) has done 1.08.47 Lakeside in July, 1.09.117 in November on hotter track Surface.

Bloody thing refused to go any quicker!

I'm hoping to get a full season out of the tyres and so far I'm considering Toyo R888, Kumho v70A, V700 as
Rspec options.

Also considering Federal 595 RSR as a cheaper option. (There seems to be some bargains around in these right
now) I'm not really interested in trying to run at the top of the field, that's not the game I'm playing.
The car is not used as a daily and so far this year gets dríven to track days then home again.

Some people trackside have recommended upgrading immediately to 15*8 Wheels but as I have good wheels anyway
I'd kinda like to avaoid that if not absolutley essential to do so.

What kind of performance/time difference could I expect between the Federal RSR 595 and the real Rspec tyres
above? Which Rspecs would people recommend for what I'm doing with the car?

And if I keep the 15*7's should I stick 195/50/15 on or 205/50/15? I've heard it's important to keep the
sidewalls as straight as possible rather than stick the wider tyres on.

I'm looking for that "value sweet spot" where price/performance ratio makes sense.

So what do people reckon?

BTW I have read the other two threads on here about Rspecs. Great reading.

Keith

[Magpie]

FZ201's in Medium or DZ03's

Whilst others may not agree I would suggest that you invest in a good tyre pressure gauge as well as a pyrometer. Knowing the tyre temps will help you get the most out of the tyres as well as assist in refining alignment etc.

[Trackphotos]

Unless you've got 3-3.5 degrees of negative camber at each end, RSRs need to be pumped very high. They will not last if you want good times out of them, you have to lower the pressures so much that your left side tyres will be destroyed after 6 track days. They will last a good bit longer if you have them pumped up to 38+ psi, but they will not be as fast. The price difference between a set of RSRs in 205/50/15 and Nitto NT01s in the same size is about $300ish, from $640/set to $920/set when I bought them. Can't really comment on the NT01s yet, other than to say that a half day track day showed considerably less wear on them than the RSRs showed on their first day, and they're immediately showing themselves to be a second or more quicker at Lakeside.

If you're only driving to and from the track, proper semis would do the job. Cheapest option would probably be NT01s, not the quickest but under $1000 for a full set fitted and balanced, so not a ridiculous investment compared to more pretend semis.

[rascal]

IMHO the best bang for buck R spec is the NT01.
Cheaper and quicker and equally as long lasting than R888.
Not as fast as A050 but half the price and lasts twice as long so effectively 1/4 the price.

My last two sets average around 12 meets, (so more than a Vic season) are same speed right through tread life, and mine were $170ea in 205/50/15 from tyresales.

Keep your 7's. Whilst technically not as fast as 8s the difference is minuscule so unless chasing pointy end of field (which you mentioned you weren't ) the gain doesn't justify the cost.
And run the 205s.

[Magpie]

Just looked at some tyre temp data and my FZ201's at QR and on average they were at 64c when I came into the pits at 26 hot.

FZ201's also come in SOFT!

[plohl]

If you can't get faster then those times on street tyres with a super charger, r spec semis wont help.
Buy some pretend semis - acilhies 123s (these are getting a pretty good wrap lately), hankook rs3s, ku36 etc. The few hundred you save can be put towards entry fees, and ensuring your car is set up - alignment, brakes and pressures.

Some driver training would also be a better investment

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[MattR]

What plohl said.

First off get a decent wheel alignment, also have a look at simple things like bushes. If these are a bit doughy then look at replacing with new rubber bushes.

You don't need a lot of camber to get the most out of tyres, they just have to be set up well and have the suspension work for you.

Depending on budget you want to spend, at the cheaper end the Achilles, to the near $250 a corner then you are looking at the Toyo's, Hankooks and Khumhos.

My NA6 1600 runs the following and does 66's around lakeside:
Standard 1600 except for timing bump and extractors
BC V1 series coilovers, don't need anything stiffer as MX5's need to have some roll in the suspension to work properly.
Brakes are standard with Hawk HPS pads front and rear.
A good wheel alignment, as much castor as we could get and only around 1.5 degrees of neg camber front and rear. A touch of toe to suit me and my driving style.
15x8 wheels with old R888's

On the last track day, thanks to Adam having some dramas I was the quickest in my class by a fair margin and I know where I can do some work that will see me crack a 65 on a blinder of a lap.

The driver training would be of more benefit at this stage than spending big dollars on tyres. Good instruction will see you be a much smoother driver and a much more consistent driver who can make the most of your tyres, whatever they are. The training will also give you the confidence to brake a lot deeper and trust the car more to do what you want it to do and also to be able to quickly work out where the correct line is that suits your driving style.

[Dan]

Another vote for the NT01’s. I am really happy with my set, I have done 7 track days on them and they still have a few days of meat left on them. Definitely a bargain R Spec that I’ve enjoyed as my first set of semi’s for my MX5.

I agree with the comments above, driver training and seat time is a better investment than anything else, particularly since you have a powerful car which makes learning much harder.

In addition to having an instructor in the passenger seat, if you’ve got someone you trust maybe get them out in your car for a session to set a time for you to benchmark where you are at and then you can try to catch that time. Someone experienced can also give you real-world tuning tips on suspension which makes a big difference.

[PeterB]

Another vote for Nitto's or R888s as value for money R-Spec. Yokohama A050 if you want to spend up big.

NA6 1600 with mild 1600, KYB coil-overs with -2.2 front and -1.8 rear with max caster and 205x50x15 on 15x6.5 at Wakefield Park was good for high 1.13 on the R888s compared to 1.16 on Kumho KU36. I could not get the more expensive V70As to go any faster than the R888s, whereas others were quicker.

[Red_Bullet]

Great info guys, thanks for your input. Being really new at running on a track I realise that there is plenty to learn. One of the big things about getting the confidence to go harder is having faith in the car to do the right thing. I do take on board about training and seat time, it's something I'm quite happy to learn over a period of time, can't learn everything all at once.

I have two cars, a standard NB and my supercharged NA8. The NB being way slower is a far easier prospect to drive, there are simply less decisions to be made because it has ABS and is so low powered. Predictable. eg, going around the kink and under the bridge at lakeside is no drama in the NB coz it simply goes through them both flat, the supercharged NA of course is different entirely with a decision having to made about how quick to go, plus you arrive at the braking zones going quicker. The NA is more skittish, the bumps under the bridge unsettle the rear which is something that a newbie has to come to terms with. When coming off the throttle the NA is quite harsh as the power shuts off like an on/off switch, gotta smooth that out as it unsettles the car.

I have been recording tyre temp across the tyres after running and on last Monday I was getting around 60 deg fairly evenly across the tyre face at 39 psi hot (although I'm only using an infrared sensor not a proper pyrometer). Lower pressure made the car slide more, I did not try harder pressure. Currently my wheel alignment setup is:

Camber Front Left -2.8
Camber Front Right -2
Caster Front 4.5
Toe in Front 1.1
Camber Rear -2.1
Caster Rear 2.1
Toe In Rear 1.5

In hindsight I'm thinking I should have tried running the tein coilovers softer, maybe Full hard is too much, getting the suspension to travel more freely might be useful to get rid of the skittshness over bumps. Any clues in setting up coilovers would be appreciatted as suspension setup appears pretty much a dark art to newbies like me. Something like: if you experience understeer on turn in then adjust coilovers front/rear softer/harder etc. Ride height is something else again to think about....The rubbers might need looking at too.

Gotta get a race seat and harness, HANS, How much hassle is it to get the race seat engineered?

About tyre choice those FZ201's in Medium or DZ03's certainly look very desirable, xmas is coming..maybe my sons could maybe...Nah, ain't gonna happen.

The NT01's sound like they might be the way to go to provide bang for buck, I'll chase around prices, any clues of where to ring first? Looks like I'll be keeping the 15*7's and sticking 205/50/15 something or other on them.

cheers

Keith

[sailaholic]

Everything you've said reinforces track time and suspension over sticky tires.

Be aware the gripper tires let go faster / harder. So when you over do it it's more likely to be a bigger loose.

Just setting things to full hard is definitely not the way to go. The suspension needs to move to provide grip. Skittish / nervousness say it's too stiff generally.

Here a one page guide from people who should know.


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[Red_Bullet]

nice, thanks

[wasabi]

Advan A050 seems to be one of the fastest tyres around at the moment.

Dunlop D03G's are also very good, quite possibly as fast if not faster than the A050 on the right car.

Toyo R888 would get my vote for good low cost R-Spec. Very popular super sprint tyre.

Though I should advise, my experience with these tyres are on AWD cars. Although they are proven to be good tyres in their own right, for a light weight RWD car, there may be other more suitable options.

[Magpie]

Alignment wise I would set toe to Zero.

Toe, at least for a track car impacts drag. Depending on HP you can run some positive toe to assist with corner exits.

You cannot have rear caster.

Your camber looks OK at the front if running the correct tyres, for normal road tyres I would not run that much. Rear I would set at least -0.5 less than the front.

[Red_Bullet]

whoops, indeed I totally agree about not having rear caster, I should proof read stuff before I post it