Does anybody actually run E85?

[Magpie]

So the suggestion is the keep my 11:1 and then boost it to 14.5 psi to get the best out of E85, I'll like to see somebody do that!

The reason I'm looking at it is that the timing can be advanced even more and the E85 will prevent pre detenation.

[gslender]

So I've finally got the MS3 Pro and Flex sensor installed and configured.

See how the bitch just works fine with no issues and most of all, ZERO tuning effort!

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=55049&p=820024#p820024

[cookie]

Few things quickly. Project R hit the nail on the head. If you're not running high comp or huge boost, where power is limited due to pre det, e85 is pointless. If it's close to you and no more inconvenient to fill up great, but in any stock car it's a waste of effort/money. The e85 holdens chew through more $/km on it than compared with petrol. Similar power too.

I built the astina with e85 compatibility but injectors probably will be too small (only 725s) but with WI, effectively doing what e85 does, it's not really worth it unless I'm bored and want to swap a gearbox.

Regarding magpie. I'd have no qualms running even 20psi through your motor. It's incredible stuff.

[angusis2fast4u]

Well i've actually just gone and bought an NB8B like 3 days ago now so watch this space! The goal is to have it supercharged running E85 in ~ 12 months time as I am just going to buy everything, take a week off and install it all and get it tuned, so I guess it just depends how much I decide to build, thoughts are to just keep stock bottom end, build the head, E85 Injectors, Fuel pump, ECU, Supercharger (definitely want a centrifugal supercharger so im leaning towards rotrex), and so on.

and that's just the mechanical side of it... then there's cooling, suspension, aesthetics.. haha

and on a side note.. is there any really well built NB's in Australia (link to a thread?) So many nice NA's but I rarely see people pushing NB's and they have so much potential!

[sailaholic]

Timk has had two built nbs. A supercharged black one and his current green turbo.

Bjones or something like that has what was supposed to be a pretty epic Nb.


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[gslender]

Few things quickly. Project R hit the nail on the head. If you're not running high comp or huge boost, where power is limited due to pre det, e85 is pointless. If it's close to you and no more inconvenient to fill up great, but in any stock car it's a waste of effort/money. The e85 holdens chew through more $/km on it than compared with petrol. Similar power too.

I built the astina with e85 compatibility but injectors probably will be too small (only 725s) but with WI, effectively doing what e85 does, it's not really worth it unless I'm bored and want to swap a gearbox.

Regarding magpie. I'd have no qualms running even 20psi through your motor. It's incredible stuff.

Don't agree. Ethanol is higher octane. Yes, you need to adj the tune to use that, but saying it's the same as PULP is wrong.

Just because bad Holden engines get nothing out of it isn't a valid case - as they've been notably poor engines for decades.

G

[beavis]

and on a side note.. is there any really well built NB's in Australia (link to a thread?) So many nice NA's but I rarely see people pushing NB's and they have so much potential!

I see them often: http://bit.ly/1aArwYO

[gslender]

Another element at play with using E85 is that whilst it has a less energy per molecule, it requires you to inject such a large quantity to reach stoichiometric combustion that the actual amount of molecules in the combustion chamber is greater so the total amount of energy is greater also. On avg you can expect to gain around 5% more efficiency on a high ethanol based fuel - so it isn't just the same bang for buck as PULP.

[angusis2fast4u]

Another element at play with using E85 is that whilst it has a less energy per molecule, it requires you to inject such a large quantity to reach stoichiometric combustion that the actual amount of molecules in the combustion chamber is greater so the total amount of energy is greater also. On avg you can expect to gain around 5% more efficiency on a high ethanol based fuel - so it isn't just the same bang for buck as PULP.

I don't agree.. I have lots of friends who run E85 on lots of different engines N/a and turbo. All of them say there is a negligible difference on price between E85 and 98 (after inital cost of upgrading the fuel system), yes you go through more fuel with E85 but it also costs considerably less.

and in reply to Cookie, Running E85 on a stock motor would be worth it if you can justify spending that much on a fuel system which is hooked up to a stock motor. in the new Toyota 86's they have this weird torque dip between like 3-5.5k rpm and When I drove my mates E85 86 it completely got rid of that torque dip meaning you could hold gears up in the mountains rather than keep having to downshift to get power. and i reckon it's worth that, so much difference by just changing fuel

[plohl]

Did he have a retune to go with the fuel angus?

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[angusis2fast4u]

Did he have a retune to go with the fuel angus?

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Yes. The 86 Stock computer is tunable so he just plugs in his laptop and uploads the tune of the fuel he wants to run

[MattR]

It's all horses for courses which fuel is best to use.

In my case my engine builder was all for using E85 for my S14, but after a close look at the rules for turbo Prod Sports cars he has now gone on a different tangent. As I have to use the standard T28 turbo and manifolds the amount of air that can be pushed into the motor is limited. Run high boost and all I do is make heat which robs me of power. Understanding that, instead of a high compression high boost motor that will still only get the same power, as the new planned build, on E85 we are going a different tack and will be using 98 pump fuel.

Keeping boost down, around a max of 12lb, and with the limitations of the rules we will be keeping it on pump fuel and making the engine work better down low producing torque over outright power. This also has other benefits:
- Easier to get fuel anywhere, I plan on doing some interstate meetings and don't want to have to cart fuel everywhere
- Torquier motor, standard gearbox is better suited to that type of motor, don't have to worry about expensive gearsets to make best use of the motor.
- Running low boosts means I won't have as many boost control issues that I would otherwise have with higher boosts and subsequent risks to the motor.
- With above, the lower boost will be easier to control, remembering the rules limit me a lot with what I can do with manifolds and the turbo.
- A bit easier to set up the fuel system as I don't have to worry about getting E85 compatible pumps, sels, lines, injectors and so on.
- I won't have the fuel capacity problems for one hour races and endurance races like the QR300 as the fuel consumption will be 30% better on 98 than E85, meaning I can use the standard tank and sensible sized surge pot. A 20 litre surge tank is stretching the rules a bit too far.

Think carefully about whether you actually need it. As someone else said, the money needed to use E85 can be better spent on suspension, tyres and so on to be quicker.

As I was taught a long time ago, and still to be proven wrong:
If you want to go seconds faster, spend your money on suspension and brakes.
If you want to go tenths faster, spend your money on the engine.

[oztrackdays]

I am making 230+ flywheel kilowatts from the Honda Engine and this does not come without
thermal consequences it's freaking hot stove literally.

The logging of the Oil temp/pressure and Water are still in the safe ish zone but it builds
temp real quick and on 98 I may not be able to complete a long stint 40+ laps

We expect to see 10+ degree temperature drops after swapping to Pump E85

[angusis2fast4u]

I am making 230+ flywheel kilowatts from the Honda Engine and this does not come without
thermal consequences it's freaking hot stove literally.

The logging of the Oil temp/pressure and Water are still in the safe ish zone but it builds
temp real quick and on 98 I may not be able to complete a long stint 40+ laps

We expect to see 10+ degree temperature drops after swapping to Pump E85

Beautiful point which I forgot to bring up in my last post, all Temps will also be lower, with less risk of overheating when pushing it hard for hours

It's all horses for courses which fuel is best to use.

In my case my engine builder was all for using E85 for my S14, but after a close look at the rules for turbo Prod Sports cars he has now gone on a different tangent. As I have to use the standard T28 turbo and manifolds the amount of air that can be pushed into the motor is limited. Run high boost and all I do is make heat which robs me of power. Understanding that, instead of a high compression high boost motor that will still only get the same power, as the new planned build, on E85 we are going a different tack and will be using 98 pump fuel.

Keeping boost down, around a max of 12lb, and with the limitations of the rules we will be keeping it on pump fuel and making the engine work better down low producing torque over outright power. This also has other benefits:
- Easier to get fuel anywhere, I plan on doing some interstate meetings and don't want to have to cart fuel everywhere
- Torquier motor, standard gearbox is better suited to that type of motor, don't have to worry about expensive gearsets to make best use of the motor.
- Running low boosts means I won't have as many boost control issues that I would otherwise have with higher boosts and subsequent risks to the motor.
- With above, the lower boost will be easier to control, remembering the rules limit me a lot with what I can do with manifolds and the turbo.
- A bit easier to set up the fuel system as I don't have to worry about getting E85 compatible pumps, sels, lines, injectors and so on.
- I won't have the fuel capacity problems for one hour races and endurance races like the QR300 as the fuel consumption will be 30% better on 98 than E85, meaning I can use the standard tank and sensible sized surge pot. A 20 litre surge tank is stretching the rules a bit too far.

Think carefully about whether you actually need it. As someone else said, the money needed to use E85 can be better spent on suspension, tyres and so on to be quicker.

As I was taught a long time ago, and still to be proven wrong:
If you want to go seconds faster, spend your money on suspension and brakes.
If you want to go tenths faster, spend your money on the engine.

All my cars i've owned I have done handling and braking before power mods for that exact reason. I plan to build a mean street car which would see mild track use so the whole fuel consumption and availability of fuel doesn't mean much to me (as I will also probably run a Flex sensor so I can fill up with whatever fuel is available), and i don't need to follow any "rules". The plan for me with E85 is not to get the absolute most out of the engine, it's just so I can run a 10-12 psi pulley so the motor is safe but get that bit more torque out of it

[elitee]

I ran united e85 in my turbo 5 made 186rwkw 12.5psi on stock block , fuels lines etc