2014 Activematic Manual Mode Shifting Problems

[justinsane]

I have recently purchased a new 2014 NC with Activematic Transmission (AT). (Can't drive a manual due to medical reasons).

I noticed a few strange behaviours that aren't documented in the user manual, regarding the manual mode selection of the AT.

All of this behavior described below happens when in manual mode of the activematic transmission.

First, if I rev to 6000 it shifts up automatically. Only tested this in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Rev limit is 6500. Nothing in the user manual about this. I know it can downshift, that is well documented.

Second, maybe related to the first issue. Overtaking, downshift to 3rd, at around 5500 (not 6500) it will automatically shift up to 4th, just as I press the paddle to up shift, which results being in 5th. Not so good overtaking a truck doing 70 on an 110 highway.

Third, somewhat of a rare event (more of a test), when in manual mode, the automatic shift happens like this. 1st 6000, 2nd 2800, 3rd 6000. I haven't gone faster than this to test 4th, really need to be on a track. My point being sometimes 2nd to 3rd auto shifts happens at 2800 approximately 30% of the time.

What I would expect is the rev limiter to kick in and cut the fuel until I up shift. Hell, I got a loaner Mazda3 AT during the first service, in manual mode it would just hit the rev limiter until you manually shifted. Even the family Hyundai ix35 has this rev limit behaviour in manual mode.

Any ideas?

[project.r.racing]

You are moving the shift level into the M position right? You ain't leaving it in D and using the flappy paddles?

[justinsane]

It's in the M mode. M mode is selected on the dash board.

M1, M2, M3 etc.

I'm NOT in D, and shifting the paddles just to be 100% clear.

[justinsane]

For completeness sake, I got a response from Mazda Australia via the dealer.

FYI it took Mazda AU one week to respond. The service manager said the technical help desk at Mazda AU had no idea. The first engineer they spoke to said this wasn't right, then another dude a few days later said this is by design. They also took an ECU dump of the car, etc. I think they had to go back to Japan for an authoritative answer.

The official response is "this is by design". They tried to pass it off as a sports feature of the manual mode activematic transmission unique to the MX5 NC 3.75 2014 model.

"It has been programmed to shift precisely at the redline for maximum speed and fastest possible shifts, blah blah blah in manual mode."
"New feature of some recent update in 2014... blah blah".
"It will hold the gear in manual mode until you hit the rev limiter..."

Now that I know what the hell is going on I decided to test it out. Shifted into manual mode, stomped on the accelerator, and off she went.
It shifted on the red line. Shifts did seem very quick not that I could measure, but it had to be 400ms or less, who knows. It was fast, not dual-clutch fast, but fast for an auto.

Also, the reason for the double shift was because it was self-shifting at the redline in addition to me sending it another shift command via the paddles.

If you want to take it to the redline it in manual mode, let it self-shift. Otherwise, issue a manual shift change before 6000 rpm.
For everyday driving in manual mode, it behaves as you would expect from a clutchless manual.

When testing this out tonight, I had a grin ear to ear.

[Mr Morlock]

IMazda seemed to have responded in pretty good time. Your "problem" is probably the first they have received- who knows. There are imported cars that have serious problems with gearboxes/ clutches and their parent cos specialise in denying responilbility.

[wasabi]

There are a lot of auto cars in the market these days which auto shift up once red line has been hit (Or just past)... Personally I never really liked this as I saw it as lack of control, but only under very specific circumstances. For example, on the track, you might actually just touch the red line (Not hitting fuel cut or valve bouncing etc) but it's not appropriate to shift up to the next gear.

Based on the response that Mazda has given you, now that you know what's happening & how the safety feature works "by design" adjust your driving style to it. Although people like me see it as lack on control, it does make perfect sense, albeit annoying in some situations.

[justinsane]

I agree. I see it as a lack of control.

I wonder how you turn the feature off. ECU setting? Does the transmission have a TCU?

I know some of the later model NC just hit the rev limiter. I test drove a Mazda 3 and it just hit the rev limiter as well.

Any ideas?

[justinsane]

I'm not happy with this outcome. I have contacted Mazda Australia directly.
Let's see how good their customer service is.

Here is an excerpt from the manual:

"In manual shift mode, gears do not shift up
automatically. Do not run the engine with
the tachometer needle in the RED ZONE. If
the tachometer needle enters the RED
ZONE, you may feel engine-braking.
However, this does not indicate an
abnormality."

[myredmx5]

I would mention your problem to your motoring association, they may be able to help!!

[JBT]

The 2009 Mazda6 owner's manual reference to operation in 'M' mode is identical to my 2007 MX-5 owner's manual and is as justinsane quoted except for the words in red:

"In manual shift mode, gears do not shift up
automatically. Do not run the engine with
the tachometer needle in the RED ZONE. If
the tachometer needle enters the RED
ZONE, you may feel engine-braking because the
fuel delivery will be stopped to protect the engine.
However, this does not indicate an abnormality."

So, unless the system has changed without the owner's manual being amended, Mazda is spinning justinsane a line of BS.
If the system has changed and the owner's manual does not reflect this, then Mazda need to put out an amended page for the owner's manual for affected cars.

[project.r.racing]

They only difference I can see from reading examples in this thread is the at 6000rpm you use to get fuel cut. Now you get gear up changes in the activematic. Any huge problem with that?

The other issue with overtaking while in auto mode and using the paddles is that you have then 2 controllers of the gears. This will always lead to unwanted gear changes. Leave it in manual if you wanna use the paddles.

[wasabi]

As all modern cars have regular software updates - Especially when they are current models - based on what others have posted from their owner's manual, I'd suggest an update has put this feature into play.

As I've said previously, although it may be a lack control & damn annoying in certain respects, I'd just drive adjust your driving style.

Alternatively, I'm sure it could be taken out by a tuner... & while they're doing that, they'll be able to give you a little bit more power & torque... Might even be able to adjust shift patterns & claiming pressures in the gear box

[justinsane]

For example, on the track, you might actually just touch the red line (Not hitting fuel cut or valve bouncing etc) but it's not appropriate to shift up to the next gear.

This. I do plan to track the car and I don't like the idea of gears changing automatically in manual mode.

Also, I believe that:

1) I was blown off. I got a minimal explanation and I felt my complaint was dismissed.

2) Having gears change in 'manual mode' is unsafe. I had an unexpected triple gear shift when trying to overtake a truck on an 110 posted single carriage road with oncoming traffic aka Newell Hwy. Hello no power. This happened on my last road trip, which predated dealer inspection and information.

3) The user manual is very explicit about normal transmission operations. No where does it state this behavior. It is a direct contradiction.

4) During the sales process I was really focused the manual mode operation, this behaviour was not disclosed to me nor demonstrated on a test drive. I would have considered other options if this was considered 'normal'.

Additionally, at face value http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/acl_resources/downloads/industry_guides/motor_vehicle_sales.pdf it looks like the following applies:

'Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that their
description of motor vehicles (for example, in a
catalogue or television commercial) is accurate'

'A supplier guarantees that motor vehicles will
match any sample or demonstration model'

'Suppliers and manufacturers guarantee that
motor vehicles are of acceptable quality'

acceptable quality
'representations made about the vehicle; for
example, in any advertising, on the manufacturer’s
or dealer’s website or in the vehicle manual'

Does not apply if 'the consumer examines the vehicle before buying
and the examination should have revealed it was
not of acceptable quality. The examination does
not require the consumer to find hidden defects
or ones that are difficult to detect; for example,
engine, brake or gear box faults, which may not
be easily detected'

Major failures
A major failure to comply with the consumer
guarantees is when:

'a reasonable consumer would not have bought
the motor vehicle if they had known about the full
extent of the problem.'

'the motor vehicle is significantly different from the
description, sample or demonstration model shown
to the consumer'

'the motor vehicle is unsafe. What is ‘unsafe’ will
depend on the circumstances of each case. For
example, a truck has faulty brakes that cause the
vehicle to require a significantly greater braking
distance than safe for normal use'

When there is a major failure to comply with a
consumer guarantee, the consumer can choose to:

'reject the motor vehicle and choose a refund or
an identical replacement (or one of similar value if
reasonably available)'

I have sent a formal letter of to the dealer and Mazda Australia stating my dissatisfaction with the car. I have asked them to bring the car back to a safe state and have the car operate as per the owners manual.

Mazda is a good company I'm sure they will do the right thing (I hope), otherwise hello ACCC.

[bruce]

Should a bought a 6 speed.

[justinsane]

Yes would have BUT my left knee was broken when I was a kid and has never been the same. Shifting with my right foot seems to be a bad idea.