Prepping SE for Chiptorque flash

[Roadrunner]

Iv been weighing up the options regarding upgrades to my SE.
Im actually pretty happy with the performance at the moment but would like just a little more.
Already have a full exhaust and I'm looking at going for the Begi air intake soon, which im well away makes the lean spot on these cars horrible to drive.
Factory smoothness and reliability is important as the wife regularly drives it and id never hear the end of it if it idles or drives weird or coughs and splutters, which the intake will do.

I can't see myself spending the dollars on a standalone ECU plus the big cost of tuning it any time soon, so im looking at building up the pieces and then getting a Chiptorque reflash as a stop-gap for a few years till I can go big (new turbo/adaptronic, the works)

Is there anything I should consider doing to the car before getting the reflash done?

Bigger injectors? How big, which ones?
Boost controller? Should I just run the factory controller or disconnect to and use something else?

Anything else I should replace/upgrade/fix as I only want to do the flash once and be done happy driving

Any tips from others who have had the re-flash done?

[Magpie]

To be honest I would be asking the people doing the reflash as to recommendations.

[Nevyn72]

Given you're looking at getting a standalone ECU in a few years it's hard to see the value in getting a Chiptorque re-chip (it's not actually a reflash AFAIK) done.
I've been going through this thought process myself since getting my SE and this is the conclusion I've come to.

My understanding is the Chiptorque option is around the ~$1400 mark and unless you take your car up to Qld it's a 'best guess' tune based what mods you've done and as we know, even with the same mods, every car is different. It'll be close but still not as good as it could be.......
Furthermore, if you make any changes to your car you've got to do it all (and spend your money) again!

Now for only slightly more ($1499) you get the plug and play Adaptronic ECU.
http://www.adaptronic.com.au/product/esel039/

The main adavantage is that the Adaptronic can be 'adjusted' for any further changes you make over time (you can spread out the upgrade process and spending) and you only have to buy it once rather than get the Chiptorque done then spend almost the same money again in a few years.

The main disadvantage is you need to spend some time getting the base tune stable before getting the full dyno tune done for additional cost. (Say ~$500-1000 for a good one).

As for injectors, the factory ones are just too small for any level of mods and need to be replaced.
I've come to the conclusion that spending extra for good ones that work well at both low level and high level mods/tunes is the way to go (spend once, spend well). The Injector Dynamics ID750 seem to be the sweet spot at the moment and are good for anything upto a silly E85 monster.....

In terms of drivability, the top spec standalone ECUs like the Adaptronic are sophisticated enough that they will perform as well as the factory ECU (in this regard) if tuned correctly by a competent tuner who is given the time to do things properly. PM Apu for his experience in this area.

It may be more painful (costly) to do it upfront but you'll (I believe) get a better result and avoid spending money twice which is better in the long run!
Crapweasel had a Chiptorque previously in his SE which he replaced with the Adaptronic standalone. If I recall correctly from my conversations with him there were no other changes made and he thought the Standalone ECU performed better.... PM him to confirm.

Finally Mania provide a drive-in / drive out service with their Stage 2 kit which has everything you need (given you have already effectively done stage 1 yourself once the intake is installed).
-Adaptronic Select ECU
-Larger Injectors
-Dyno Tuning
-Boost Control Solenoid
- Wideband MTXL (AFR Gauge)
-Max Power Run
http://www.mx5mania.com.au/product1538.htm
@ $2899 fitted that's pretty close to what you would be looking at by sourcing and fitting your own parts then finding a tuner yourself.

Sorry for the long winded reply but I've been thinking this through myself for many months now and thought you might appreciate my perspective.

[gslender]

Another option is MS PNP Pro - which is now specifically supporting the SE (or MazdaSpeed Miata)

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega ... p-583.html

This would obviously require a more "DIY" approach unless you can find a tuner willing to look at this for you.

My experience (and others) is that you can tune yourself fairly easily if you are willing to invest some time and learn something - but obviously if you are unable or not confident then I'd recommend going with an ECU your local tuner is confident with (but do be prepared to spend $$$ to get it running smoothly).

Good luck!

[gslender]

....actually, after thinking more - save the $$$ on other mods and do the ECU first. It will then be the foundation for everything else and support mods as you go.

This is even more valid if you DIY the tuning yourself - learn to get the car starting, idle and running on the standalone and then as you mod away, you can adapt the tune to suit. This can include Dyno time for a small amount of $$$ and is a great way to know how much extra those $1000 dump pipes, intercooler or intakes mods made.

G

[ManiacLachy]

I'm in a similar place to you Roadrunner and Nevyn. I've got the basic bolt-ons mostly sorted (still need the intercooler). I've basically come to the same conclusion as Nevyn, and am thinking I'll pick up an Adaptronic, boost controller and injectors, then get it tuned. It's more up front, sure, but if you even think you want to change something down the road, it's the better option. Also, gslender's option of MS is also valid, and like he says if you're willing to get more involved it could be the cheaper option.

As far as bolt-ons go, I've got the throttle body elbow and BOV, intake and the full 3" exhaust, and I find it manageable. It's not factory smooth, but definitely driveable. I'm looking to keep running this way for 6 months or so until I have the scratch for the ECU and bits. The car is my daily driver, and I don't have any major or even mild issues with driveablity. I guess what I'm saying is, you could manage this way too, I think, if you wanted to do the bolt ons first.

[Roadrunner]

I'v eye'd off the MX5Mania quote but have heard the drive out tune isn't perfect there (idle etc).
I'm also aware the chiptorque is a best guess based on mods done but idles and drives smoothly (has anyone had issues with the re-flash?)
Ideally a standalone is what id like to do. But after the cost of the ECU, plus paying someone else to tune it, im looking at $3000 plus, where as the total quote from Chip-torque came in under $1000
(how much does a good standalone tune cost?)

And if I never end up going the whole hog or changing anything, at least I have a smooth car to drive that only cost $900 now and until/if I do change stuff over.

Damn it Nevyn! Now im unsure!!

[Juicy HiC]

Here's my 2 cents worth. If youve seen my garage thread you'll see that I have done the chiptorque reflash, I've also got a haltech interceptor piggy backed. I had Lochlan at chiptorque do mine without the car, while it was certainly an improvement over r how it was, it's still not perfect. I'm now thinking of taking the car to him to see if he can get it better before I do a complete ECU. My car has the BEGI cold air intake, RX8 injectors, flyin miata downpipe and cat with 2.5" exhaust and an ebay intercooler.
Why did I do it that way? It was a bit by accident that I ended up with both the chiptorque and haltech and given the money spend would have been better just getting g the ECU 1st. But I had bought the interceptor off another forum member and because of delays with his car it was at the point where I had to do something. My Dad was on the Gold Coast and had been talking to Lachlan and so I made the decision to forget the I terceira and get the reflash. Of course as soon as I sent the factory ecu the haltech turned up and I was left with having both. Thought about on selling the haltech but figured I'd try them both as the haltech does give a little more "tunability". The car is definitely better than it was before although in all honesty it was definitely drivable prior to (normal injectors) but the bigger issue was that I wasn't able to make the most of the improvements because of the limitations in the factory ecu.
If you are considering g doing g a full ecu at some point just wait and do it when you can. Because if there's any inclination to do further mods then your just adding expense for no reason. If you don't plan on anymore then the reflash would be great if you can get the car to them.
As far as which ecu, I have and am looking at all contenders and while the adaptronic is right up there if your not in a huge rush perhaps wait another couple of months as Haltech have a new range coming this month, the Elite series. I only mention this because I was actually pretty sold on the ms pro for the SE, but I stopped in at automotive plus when I was in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago and spoke to Jason about a few things including ecu options. That's the one he suggested if I could wait. Apparently there'll be 2 in the range, the 1st one will be the 2500 which is more suited to 8cyl engines but there's meant to be a 1500 coming shortly after which will be for 4cyl. These ECUs apparently will be able to control our alternators without any of the problems that have plaqued others going down this route.

[Roadrunner]

Im pretty much the same mods as you ManiacLachy, except I don't have the intake.
All I'm worried about is upgrading the intake and then copping a beating off the missus because it falls over/acts up when it hits 4000rpm, then having to explain that it's going to cost $3000+ to fix that

[Lokiel]

To be honest I would be asking the people doing the reflash as to recommendations.

+1

The Chiptorque option is by far the simplest/cheapest and as Nevyn72 said, if you can leave the car with them, they can install their preferred injectors (probably 440cc for ~150rwkw which is nice) at the same time and create a chip specific to your car's mods since they can tweak it, as opposed to shipping one based on other data they have that may or may not be optimal for your car. Just don't do any additional mods after the flash since they'll likely require another chip.

It'll be legal too!

150rwkw is nice in an MX5 but usually results in the desire for MOAR POWA


If you KNOW that you'll eventually get a standalone ECU, you may as well buy one now, along with larger injectors and boost control solenoid since the Chiptorque solution will cost well over $1,000 and it's not really something you can re-sell on the forums.

[ManiacLachy]

I think the 4k issue is blown out of proportion. I've felt it, you're climbing in the revs, then you hit a spot where nothing seems to happen, lasts a second, then revs build again, but a bit faster. You've got to be going pretty aggressive to experience it, I don't find it alarming and it doesn't throw the ride off or anything like that.

It's certainly not a problem I'm in a hurry to throw money at. The money that could cover the ECU will go to coilovers, intercooler and rollbar first, maybe wheels after that. ECU is in the future for sure, but not an imediate priority.

Your priorities may well differ, and I may change my mind too, but for now I just wanted to share my thoughts. I'm interested in where you go with it.

[Magpie]

Lokiel makes the important comment of legal. The Chiptorque retains the stock ECU so any modification to the ECU is impossible at first glance, however an emissions test will reveal the truth.

Chiptorque does not say that the ECU will complie with the relevant emissions laws after it has been 'chipped'.

Make sure you understand the legal implications of any car mod decision and then make your own assessment of risk/reward risk/penalty.

[emily_mx5]

Another SE owner here

I only have a short ram intake as yet, 4000rpm issue is really obvious lol.

I was set on full standalone ecu but am now scared off by potential unreliability, rough idle alternator control etc.

My plans are now:
2.5" exhaust turbo back with high flow cat
Bigger intercooler
Chiptorque re-chip with rx8 injectors.

I have family scattered along the coast so will probably drive the car to qld for a custom tune and visit them along the way.
Seems pretty ridiculous to have to travel so far but it seems like the only option for decent improvement.

Still unsure about boost control, does anyone have any suggestions?

[Lokiel]

MBC is a better option if you plan to go the Chiptorque route, standalone EBC is expensive and a LOT of hassle to install - much easier to simply tweak your MBC on those really hot/cold days. You really should contact Chiptorque about this though, they may want better control and possibly even recommend installing a decent boost control solenoid.

For a standalone system though I'd definitely recommend a boost control solenoid that's controlled by your aftermarket ECU, even more so for an SE since the boost control solenoid's wiring is already in place in the car and you just have to replace the hokey factory 2-valve solenoid (another half-arsed turbo-mod Mazda added to the SE) with a proper 3-valve solenoid.

For me, the 4,000-4,500rpm temporary power drop was noticeable and the FM O2 mod fixed it (doesn't work for everyone though).

The latest Adaptronic Select ECU now accepts alternator input so it's MUCH better than it has been in the past - no need to swap out the alternator for an NA version.
I'll be interested to see how the Haltech compares to it.
GT Auto (Haltech specialists) are going to tune my car (Adaptronic Select ECU) on the 20th (WTAC and O/S commitments have held this up unfortunately) so when the new Haltech arrives and they've installed a few I'll try and post some of their comments (hopefully they wont be too biased).

[Roadrunner]

Lokiel makes the important comment of legal. The Chiptorque retains the stock ECU so any modification to the ECU is impossible at first glance, however an emissions test will reveal the truth.

So if I got pulled up by EPA and they did a sniff test, the re-flash would fail?
That I did not realise! (Having said that I don't hang out with the doof doof kids at Saturday night hot spots so low risk of being pulled up)

And see what I mean about the 4000rpm issue, I get mixed responses every time

Lots of info to take in.
Iv been following the adaptronic forums regarding setup and new software controls regarding idle and alternator control so that looks promising.
Perhaps I'll just get the intake first and see for myself how it goes