Is SE ownership worth it?

[angusis2fast4u]

So I had an NA6.. got bored, bought a Nissan Skyline R32, love the turbo but miss the cornering ability..

The only cars in the mazda range which seem to fulfill these too category's are either RX-7 FC or SE..

I would love a Supercharged NB but I could save money buying an SE in the long term.

any advice from people who have owned SE's? Is buying an SE over a normal Nb8b or later (so i get the 6speed) better?

I'm at a cross roads with my decision please help me!

[sailaholic]

You seemed to have missed the FD?

A after market turbo NBb would out perform a SE at a lower cost I would guess.

SE seem to be good and fine if your happy with stock power but get expensive if you start chasing more.


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[Craig]

I loved my SE even in stock form, and I pine for it's replacement!

[ManiacLachy]

SE is a great car, but to make the most of it, you'll need to upgrade several components, or buy one already modded. So factor that into the budget. Doing the mods is great fun, and you get to experience the evolution of your car, but it can add up.

[lizard]

Apart from the turbo, leather, AC , bla bla bla bla bla bla you get all the extra special goodies NB owners die for

[Juicy HiC]

I've owned my SE since new in 2004. I've loved every minute of the car.
I've been modding it for the last 2 years and have thoroughly enjoyed that aspect of it. I'm now at the point where I've reached the limits of the stock turbo and to get more I'll need to upgrade it. This is now where it really gets expensive.
I recently met with Jason from Automotive Plus to talk about the next step. His suggestion was sell the SE, buy an NB8A and built that one. It would be cheaper and easier because of the difficulties of getting aftermarket ECUs to work properly on the SE.
This isn't really an option for me, but sound advice.
All I can say is read some of the SE garage threads there's lots and it will shed some light on how difficult it can be to get a new ECU to work.
In saying that I wouldn't swap my car but there are easier and cheaper ways to get the same performance.

[Lokiel]

:A after market turbo NBb would out perform a SE at a lower cost I would guess.

SE seem to be good and fine if your happy with stock power but get expensive if you start chasing more.
:

If you want to keep everything legal without needing expensive engineering certification, an SE is a pretty good choice.

Out of the box the SE is pretty underwhelming for a turbocharged car - you get maybe 110rwkw and the car doesn't feel turbocharged at all.

Add a CAI and MBC, increase the boost to 10psi and you'll get around 135rwkw - you'll know that there is a small turbo working under the hood. This is a cheap DIY mod with no ill-effects and is how the car SHOULD have come from the factory in the first place. You'll be very happy with this mod but inevitably become infected by the "MOAR POWA" virus.

After this is where it gets expensive. Add a 2.5 or 3" exhaust and you'll be sitting around 140-145rwkw but the ECU can't really handle this (there's a "dead spot" between 4500 and 5000rpm where the ECU isn't supplying enough fuel - once it hits 500rpm, the ECU switches to Open Loop mode and everythings fine again). At these power levels you'll be running lean so will need larger injectors. On the stock ECU, 321cc injectors are largest ones it can handle but these are impossible to find and Toyota 305/315cc injectors are more commonly used.

You can try some band-aid solutions to overcome the ECU's limitations (such as the FM O2 mod and boost cut resistor mod) but they're a poor second to an aftermarket ECU as your car will never be "factory smooth" and will sound crook until it warms up.

Chiptorque's chip repacement is a cheap ECU solution and will work best if you do all the intake+exhaust mods first, take the car to them and allow them to upgrade your injectors and generate a chip soution for your car. Chiptorque produced the ECU for the SP (which you seem to have overlooked as an option).
You should be able to achieve ~150rwkw which is pretty sweet in an MX5 AND the car will still be suitable for trackwork+DD.

This was all with stock internals - 250hp is generally accepted as the ceiling for stock internals.

NBs (including SEs) have been traditionally difficult for aftermarket ECUs due to alternator control/input. The new Adaptronic Select ECUs now have an input for this and are easier to tune than in the past.


So:
* consider the SP as an option if you DON'T want to modify it any further (they're rare so keep them original - they pump out around 135rwkw).
* consider an SE, upgrade with CAI + 10psi boost for similar SP power levels and a better overall car (but do upgrade to 15" rims)
* buy an SE now and accept that you'll become infected with "MOAR POWA" and throw a lot of money at the car

[pcmx5]

[quote="Lokiel"
:A

Out of the box the SE is pretty underwhelming for a turbocharged car - you get maybe 110rwkw and the car doesn't feel turbocharged at all.

At three Vic Club dyno days on a Dyno Dynamics dyno which gave consistent readings over the three years standard SP's average around 113RWKW so I think an SE may struggle to get to 110 RWKW given the average loss quoted flywheel to RW over about twenty cars was 30%.

Posters have certainly given you some good advice and as with all modifications it pays to have a goal in mind so you avoid doing things twice or having to change components.If you want moderate power then there are some reasonably priced mods that won't break the bank and have a huge grin factor.If you want an all out performer build one.

Whatever I am sure you will enjoy the experience,good luck,

Peter

[angusis2fast4u]

The "Moar Power" virus is definitely one which is strong with me, and I am about to throw 5k at making my R32 make 350hp (Which isn't a lot of bang for your buck) So i'm hoping someone buys it before i start really throwing money at a wall.

I really want an NB purely after reading this article: http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/05/carve-the-canyons-the-perfect-mazda-miata/ and I feel if I went that far on modding an SE it would ruin it, (not as rare as SP's but still up there. And definitely want the Autokonexion Fast back) so I am trying to lean towards getting an nb8b or nb8c and modding it but I don't want to live without a turbo again (I could get over it though haha)

(Picture for in thread reference)

I recently met with Jason from Automotive Plus to talk about the next step. His suggestion was sell the SE, buy an NB8A and built that one.

Why did he say specifically NB8A? Wouldn't a NB8B cost a little more but comes with 6speed and bigger brakes?

Maybe buying an NB8B or later is the way... I definitely would be one to fully build the motor within 5 years of buying it

[Juicy HiC]

Main reason for the NB8A was price.
If you go 6 speed route then definitely put the miata roadster short shifter on your mod list

[hks_kansei]

You seemed to have missed the FD?

Isn;t there still a substantial price gap between the SE and the FD?

[angusis2fast4u]

You seemed to have missed the FD?

Isn;t there still a substantial price gap between the SE and the FD?

Yep, and especially maintenance, plus I don't see myself owning an FD when i prefer the FC anyday

[sailaholic]

FDs are 20k ish landed now.


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[yem11n]

My experience with owning SE has been great. And this is my second SE
With 200HP at the wheel SE drives like a beast on the roads. The car is low and even at 60 - 70 with the exhaust note it feels fast enough.
I love taking the SE out after driving the SUV the whole week.
You can try to lighten the SE by replacing with lighter parts or just ditching non essential parts and behavior of the car just improves.

For me I will keep running the original turbo and happy with the power. Its still fairly reliable. If you are planning to go faster or more POWA. It kinda make sense to just start off with NB. But you have to factor in the engineering/expenses..

I don't know about other SE owners but the 6 speed in my SE is brilliant (on both SEs that I had). It is further improved by the tall angled short shifter... It is a must to try out..

NBs (including SEs) have been traditionally difficult for aftermarket ECUs due to alternator control/input. The new Adaptronic Select ECUs now have an input for this and are easier to tune than in the past.

That is absolutely true and all NBs have this issue with alternator when they go for aftermarket ECU. But the ECU I am using now, Adaptronic stand alone version, Andy have upgraded firmware that will to take care of this idle and stalling issue. I was really peeved upgrading to stand alone since it was working so well on piggy back version. But after Andy fixed it, now it idle like factory ... And this fix is available for all NBs. and no more needing to buy NA alternator..

[bootz]

Re: Is SE ownership worth it?

NO