NB - lightest model with ABS (in AU)?

[lightyear]

Just buy an NB8B, it's a far better car. ABS is good, and will save you from an accident. Depending on circumstances.
If you want it lighter, remove all the braces and airbags. Put some light weight 15" wheels on.
(Track use only obviously)

[Mr Morlock]

What rubbish about ABS- it's one of the miracles of modern cars. It's tosh about the myth of the great driver who Nuvolari like comes to a halt without any drama - dry wet he can do it. ABS has saved countless lives for every driver from brilliant to poor. Old cars often had terrible brakes and lock ups with poor systems were common place. Light year is right about the safety and a few kgs here or there is irrelevant.

[project.r.racing]

Abs did reduce accidents as it allowed drivers who didn't know how to brake properly to pull up quicker (but not quicker then a good driver)

The problem is people then drive closer to the car in front etc because they "know" the abs makes them able to stop quicker.

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That is incorrect. ABS reduces pressure to the brakes, hence increasing stopping distance. ABS is designed to stop 2 foot brakers in a heavy braking situation/accident from locking up the brakes and having nil steering.

Agreed on the second statement though. Extra driver aids create poor drivers.

[speed]

If you know how to drive you won't want abs. Ian luff taught us to squeeze the brakes. My 1984 rx7 (without abs) out ran and out braked the new mx6's of the day with abs.
I was actually travelling 30km faster than the next quickest car yet I braked in a shorter distance. Sure both cars are dynamically different but point is that the later car with abs couldn't perform against a decent driver without abs.


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[sailaholic]

My first statement was correct also, but I'll clarify it.

Abs pulls a poor driver not because the car brakes better but because it stops the panic brake of the driver just locking everything up.

It doesn't pull up faster (as I said) then a good driver braking effectively.


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[Mr Morlock]

Not much balance in canning ABS- its an argument that would not stand up. And of course those saying these things are all great drivers- aren't we all. The world of automotive engineers and car industry have voted and ABS and its variations reign supreme- the safety bodies think so too. In Vic Etc is now mandatory for new cars.

I love the theories of the controlled situation where the skilful driver pulls up faster than the driver with the abs. Also the great stories of the race car drivers that teach their students in 2 hours how to squeeze the brakes- yes they did that but of course it does not work in many situations . So armed with a couple hours of training 6 months later Joe Citizen driving his or her car down the road and needs to stop under an emergency does not squeeze the brakes but instead does what the bell curve tells us- hits the brakes and all good maybe if the road is not wet or its not on a curve etc etc. ABS often allows a driver to steer a vehicle whereas locked wheels don't steer - do they! If I get caught out in the hail the driver aids may save my neck or passengers or other road users.

There is also not a scintilla of proof that driving aids make us worse drivers though there is proof that listening to loud music and ordering a pizza on the phone whilst driving do divert attention. If that were all true then the older generation who learned to drive in cars with drum brakes and no power steering and all manual transmissions would all be merlins - but sadly no they aren't all good at all. Just as many of them were bad drivers and far more were killed on the roads waiting for the industry to develop.

[Aussie Stig]

LOL you all is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Especially shame on you Mr Morlock for falling into a rookie trap, should be reading The Dog & Lemon more carefully.

[lightyear]

I was in the ABS is for losers camp originally. As I didn't have ABS. I also had no trouble stopping a car at the limit of grip. With a wheel or two partially skidding. So not locked, but sliding a bit as it rotates.
But once I got used to driving a car on track with ABS, I think it would be silly to go back. Those that say the car will brake better without ABS are wrong.
The ABS only kicks in when a wheel is going to lock. So if you drive on the limit under braking without locking a wheeling. Then what's the difference?
I find a slight pulse when you are right on the threshold of locking. And without ABS, if you over do it, you are going to lock a wheel. And flat spot an expensive tyre. Over lukey in the wet, the ABS has saved me from going into the grass. You can slow enough, then lift a bit so you can turn the corner. You can't steer a car with the ABS on full much better than a locked wheel. Try it. A tyre has only so much grip. If you are using all of it to stop, there is nothing left to turn.

[Boyracer]

It also saves $400 race tyres which you can destroy in 1 second when you lock up brakes.

[Mr Morlock]

Aussie you need a few facts not just saying wrong- how about a reasoned response. The automotive world is against you- no first world car company would present a car without ABS. It has saved countless lives and embraced by all safety authorities. And who gives a rats what someone experiences on a race track- afterall they use slicks on race tracks but not suitable for the road. Even the keenest race car driver spends little time on a track and far more time on the road where there are any number of vehicles and things going on sometimes at random. I can say categorically ABS has saved me from a sure crash a few times. And when you granny or your P plater hits the ABS brake and holds it down and stops or steers around a car thank the engineers.
ABS brings a standard approach to braking and a tendency for just about everyone to plant their foot in an emergency and it does not rely on the vagaries of different cars.The thing with ABS is that people can drive for years without having to make an emergency braking move but when an emergency arises in the blink of an eye you want some certainly and skidding off a road and a car out of control is not what you want.

[speed]

M, real life not theory. I challenge you to keep your posts to 3 sentences or less and still make a valid point.


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[JBT]

Real life? ABS will save your real life

[93_Clubman]

Aussie you need a few facts not just saying wrong

Pot calling Kettle - Pot calling Kettle...

[Mr Morlock]

there is an old saying along the lines that "I become unintelligible when I struggle to be brief" . JBT managed very succinctly to nail the ABS point .

[sailaholic]

When was your last formal driver training mr m? I'm required the update mine every 2 years. 8 months ago we discussed the scientific research on driver aids. This information was the basis behind my post.

Where is yours.....facts?


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