Is a fuel pressure regulator required?

[sailaholic]

Hey G as far as I was aware yes tims car is very very well mannered. As I said though adaptronics play nice with ID injectors. The characteristics are programmed into the code and you just select them from a drop down. This was done due to the quality of information available re dead times etc.

[davekmoore]

Are you already committed to the Haltech?

[The American]

Yes, I've bought one. I thought about adaptronic, but the favoured tuner 3 hours north of Brisbane. Are you having troubles?

[davekmoore]

Agree a fixed price and timeframe with your Haltech tuner for getting the results you also agree with him.

Among other results to include in your agreement:

1. Reliable starting plus idle at a sensible and steady speed regardless of use of a/c, steering, brakes, lights, ambient temp.
2. Transient throttle response to be as standard. No sudden on-off behaviour.
3. If the ECU is supposed to control the alternator, make sure it does exactly that, and properly.
4. If the ECU is not supposed to control the alternator, make sure it doesn't interfere with how the alternator controls itself.
5. Whether he expects the use of E85 to affect 1 or 2 above.
6. The ECU is not to drain the battery when the car is not used.

Expect to use three times as much E85 as 98 (hence using ID1000s).

Check whether the tuner thinks anything other than the ECU is needed for his work to be effective and safe. If more is needed, get him to justify and fixed-price it in advance. This is particularly important to agree as far as the E85 conversion is concerned.

Check how he will keep you mobile if he misses the timeframe.

[Okibi]

Had to do some guess work for dead times on the ID725s on my SE. If it had a reg then it would have been a lot simpler. If you can afford it I'd do it as it takes one variable out of the equation when they're trying to tune the car. It's on my too do list when I win lotto and can afford to go big with the SE build.

[Hellmun]

Agree a fixed price and timeframe with your Haltech tuner for getting the results you also agree with him.

Among other results to include in your agreement:

1. Reliable starting plus idle at a sensible and steady speed regardless of use of a/c, steering, brakes, lights, ambient temp.
2. Transient throttle response to be as standard. No sudden on-off behaviour.
3. If the ECU is supposed to control the alternator, make sure it does exactly that, and properly.
4. If the ECU is not supposed to control the alternator, make sure it doesn't interfere with how the alternator controls itself.
5. Whether he expects the use of E85 to affect 1 or 2 above.
6. The ECU is not to drain the battery when the car is not used.

Expect to use three times as much E85 as 98 (hence using ID1000s).

Check whether the tuner thinks anything other than the ECU is needed for his work to be effective and safe. If more is needed, get him to justify and fixed-price it in advance. This is particularly important to agree as far as the E85 conversion is concerned.

Check how he will keep you mobile if he misses the timeframe.

You sound like you need a new tuner.... my car was re-tuned from the haltech mx5 turbo base-map in 3 hours. 1.5 on street and 1.5 on dyno. The throttle is smooth, it make 204rwkw and it's part-throttle behavior is excellent (factory SP parts so just a GT2560r). Did your tuner not take the car out on the street at all? Mines on ID 725's and a Sard FPR but it's running stock 43psi pressure (long story but my stock reg was damaged). I didn't need to muck around with the idle-up functions as I have no a/c or p/s anymore....If #6 actually happened you need to RUN AWAY from that tuner. That means they ran power straight off the battery for it which is just plain stupid.

Back to original topic remember that an NB8B/NB8C has a 60psi static FPR (it doesn't reference manifold pressure) in the fuel tank. So you will be losing fuel pressure relative to boost. It's a returnless system so a pain to change as you need to add a return line and modify/replace the rail fuel . I've got a NB8A factory return line and rail in my car. Then a fuel rail adapter on the rail and the SARD FPR. It can be tuned around but the injectors will behave smaller at high boost/load as the pressure drops (e.g 60psi - 14psi manifold pressure = 46psi of actual injector pressure). Most people aren't running huge boost so I'd leave it as-is for a street car. If your going drag racing later running 30psi on a big turbo I'd worry about it though That 416 should also be a nicer street pump than the 255 walbro, they got much quieter in recent generations of the submerged pumps.

[davekmoore]

If #6 actually happened you need to RUN AWAY from that tuner. That means they ran power straight off the battery for it which is just plain stupid.

It looks like they may have done this. Certainly there's an extra lead running from the battery. Why would they? Will the ECU flatten the battery if they have? What is the correct way of doing it and how much should an auto elec charge for changing it?

[sailaholic]

The ecu should be powered from the cars loom just like factory . So loom - patch loom - ecu

Start running.

[greenMachine]

If #6 actually happened you need to RUN AWAY from that tuner. That means they ran power straight off the battery for it which is just plain stupid.

It looks like they may have done this. Certainly there's an extra lead running from the battery. Why would they? Will the ECU flatten the battery if they have? What is the correct way of doing it and how much should an auto elec charge for changing it?

Don't panic - yet!

It is possible that the tuner wanted good power for the relays, and so ran a direct connection back to the battery. That would (should) mean no power is being drawn until the relays are switched on, even if the battery cut-out switch is not turned off.

But ECU should be on a switched circuit (ignition usually), AFAIK. Pretty sure mine is. That way no current is being drawn when ignition/switch is not on.

[Hellmun]

It's only ok if it's behind an ignition switched relay and a fuse. If it's draining power when off I doubt it's behind a relay. Simplest test is to unplug the ECU. Then check the power input for 12V when ignition is on/off. If it's permanent 12V then that tuner has nfi what he's doing.

[gslender]

Simplest test is to unplug the ECU. Then check the power input for 12V when ignition is on/off. If it's permanent 12V then that tuner has nfi what he's doing.

The stock loom from NA6 onwards has live 12V going into the ECU. That is incredibly common thing to find and switch/ignition 12V turns on the ECU and rest of loom, but the battery 12V exists because many ECUs require a live charge to keep some information in memory. As I said, the NA6 has this as stock and so does every MX5 since (and pretty much every other car).

Obviously I agree that the ECU should be switched on via the 12 ignition/relays etc, but it is also ok for the ECU to have 12V live direct from battery. Unless you understand the internals of ECU very very well, you shouldn't just assume a live 12V from the battery is bad.

G

[davekmoore]

It's been rare that I've had two such conflicting answers.

[sailaholic]

G, what would be the purpose of running a dedicated battery just for standby power in addition to the factory power wiring.

Add to that that haltec comes with plug in patch looms.

Battery went flat / died in car and all the other issues and things don't add up.

[Hellmun]

There is a pink signal wire which should be on the ignition circuit to turn the ECU on. If like he said the battery is draining it sounds like it's got the generic loom and it's not switching so it's all directly connected. Haltech provide patch looms which already have battery power through the factory loom as appropriate ( for fuel pump/ ECU etc). It still sounds like it hasn't been done properly. Further reinforced by the poor tune behavior.

This is getting far off topic so perhaps merits another thread?

[greenMachine]

PS1000 wiring diagram: http://www.haltech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Platinum1000WiringDiagramrevJ.pdf

Switched power for the ECU the way I read it, no standby current draw.