sailaholic NA8

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tbro
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby tbro » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:36 pm

sailaholic wrote:
I've seen photos of it done on a mx5 track car with itbs in japan and a lot of talk about doing it in the states but no one has actually done it that I can find.
The extra space can then be used for air intake and if required a standalone oil cooler.

Shane,
Paul (crewmans) car has the smaller radiator fitted and it makes obscene horsepower and never looks like overheating, racing or road duties.

Mr poo musta been in a good mood????? that rocker cover is a big " look at me " flag for a defect.
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gslender
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby gslender » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:22 pm

sailaholic wrote:G, which first two inches top or right?

The other idea I had was to pull air from in front of the rad but cutting a section of the rad block of panel. But I think bonnet clearances might be a bit tight.


When facing the engine, the left side vanes, two inches wide - essentially capping and then cutting out the vanes that run top to bottom from the tanks at that point. So the overall water capacity is similar but the cooling vanes / core has been reduced.

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sailaholic
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:36 pm

Haha yeah terry they were pretty nice all in all.

Took exception to the seat (the only major defect)
the valve cover / PCV not plumbed back in
Oiled filter socks

They didn't like the exposed cam gears but admitted they weren't actually illegal.

They probably would have picked on more but they had a fair bit already. They quizzed the factory lip and nardi wheel but left it alone.

sailaholic
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:39 pm

Yeah I get what you mean now. Would certainly save the issues with how to mount the rad.

You would still need to do a piper cross style filter in the airbox set up I would guess as your chances of getting a long thin panel filter probably aren't good.

sailaholic
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sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:24 am

The joys of sitting on a train crowded with school kids...

I went back looking at coolant stuff and Electric water pumps and came across this thread again.
http://m.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=35609&page=5

This time I actually read it to the end rather then give up in the bickering stage and got some really useful information.

I had already purchased a Davies Craig ewp when I did the head build but got impatient about getting the car back on the road after 12 months of not being mobile.

I also wasn't happy I had answered the questions of thermostat vs no thermostat to my satisfaction and was not happy with how I was going to control the pump. I had a DAvies Craig controller but that would have meant 4 temp sensors! (Ecu, DC controller, dash gauge and after market gauge)

Readers digest of the thread is
- he uses a civic radiator (had missed that the first time around)

- water flowing to fast to cool an engine is a myth.

- Faster flowing water has better heat transfer, makes more loops for time unit so total cooling is better, reduces temperature gradients in the engine and reduces the ability for steam pockets to build

- most ewp are rated for virtually no flow restriction at the publish flow amount for example 80L/min

- thermostats are a large flow restrictor so if you keep the thermostat with an ewp make sure it can flow sufficient fluid at a reasonable pressure restriction.

- using an electronic controller is required if no thermostat. This is arguably a better situation and flow is increased by the lack of restriction.

- a thermostat acts as a restriction which increases the pressure in the cylinder head (normal flow direction) and can help prevent localised boiling. It was argued this an be combatted by increasing total system pressure (radiator cap) or using a higher boiling point fluid.

- reverse coolant flow can lower cylinder head temperatures which is beneficial for increasing power.

- there is a ewp manufacturer which supplies for BMW that makes an ewp with a control circuit built in that allows control with a low current PWM input. I believe the DC pump is only voltage control which makes it hard to control via ECU.

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plohl
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby plohl » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:34 am

tbro wrote:
sailaholic wrote:
I've seen photos of it done on a mx5 track car with itbs in japan and a lot of talk about doing it in the states but no one has actually done it that I can find.
The extra space can then be used for air intake and if required a standalone oil cooler.

Shane,
Paul (crewmans) car has the smaller radiator fitted and it makes obscene horsepower and never looks like overheating, racing or road duties.

Mr poo musta been in a good mood????? that rocker cover is a big " look at me " flag for a defect.


I am Shane :D
Sailaholic is Nick :P
Cheers,
plohl

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plohl
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby plohl » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:36 am

You have any more outputs to control the EWP from the adaptronic?

When are we going to start actually doing some stuff?
Cheers,
plohl

sailaholic
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:50 am

Yeah have spare outputs but 8amps is right on the limits of the high current outputs. Andy wasn't real comfortable with a what could be a constant load of that size.

nick A also said to avoid running the full current load through the ecu.


Timing....hmm not sure you know how much I struggle to get free time apart from on a train.

Magpie
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby Magpie » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:05 am


sailaholic
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:33 am

Thanks mark. I can use the ecu to trigger a relay based on coolant temp but this means the pump is either on or off.

The DC controller actually pulses at very low temperatures (circulation for warm up) then runs at 2/3? Power in it's second stage point then full power above the desired temperature.

I was trying to emulate this via the ecu with an output table vs temperature. Ie coolant below 50 - 10% pump load
50-70 - 20% pump load
70 - 80 80% pump load
> 80 100% pump load
Then have the ecu trigger fans at 85 or something.

Logs would probably be need to tweak the change over set points but you get the idea.

At 8 amps though would need to get a bit fancy on the electronics side so the ecu doesn't see the full load. One suggestion was to have two relays one that turns the pump on via a resistor and another that shorts the resistor.

This would require more then one additional output on the ecu and I'm starting to get short.

Magpie
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby Magpie » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:05 am

Thinking out load if the ECU outputs a certain voltage beased on your map then you could use 2 circuits one for low speed and one for max speed based on the voltage output from the ECU. I'm sure somebody sells a pre-made black box to control a motor based on an input voltage.

I'm also stalking you on this as I have been thinking of an electric water pump as well...
Last edited by Magpie on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gslender
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby gslender » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:07 am

if only you had an ms3 pro, you'd be able to do all of this in the ecu - it has custom pwm outputs with table control etc....
MX5 91 NA6 LE completely stock and loving it!
MX5 92 NA8/ITBs Silver "aka Track Beeotch"

sailaholic
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby sailaholic » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:31 pm

Can it handle the 8 amps though. I have the PWM outputs with table control but it's the current draw that's the issue.

Magpie
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby Magpie » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:53 pm


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gslender
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Re: sailaholic NA8

Postby gslender » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:49 pm

sailaholic wrote:Can it handle the 8 amps though. I have the PWM outputs with table control but it's the current draw that's the issue.


Bugger! 8 amps is a problem - you need a MOSFET and a few resistors - probably just inside a loom and screw the heatsink ic to the body work.
MX5 91 NA6 LE completely stock and loving it!
MX5 92 NA8/ITBs Silver "aka Track Beeotch"


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