Friendly heads up about shipping from www.mossmiata.com

[manga_blue]

They took money from his credit card account that he didn't authorise them to take. Have you noticed that normally when you pay online you don't authorise payment until all charges are disclosed? I wouldn't invest any emotion in getting some back but it's well worth a small piece of my time. If I gave this case to manga_scarlet she'd be firm but ever so sweet and most likely get all the shipping wiped and a discount on top

[Apu]

OK, I'm talking about the clarity of shipping charges on the page.

In terms of charging an unauthorised amount, my guess is that somewhere on the checkout page is some fine print about applying international shipping charges.

In fact, it's stated on the couple of pages I mentioned...which assumes that when you checkout, you accept that international shipping charges will be applied to your card. In other words, if you don't check first, it assumes that you have accepted.

[Magpie]

The fine print (not so fine)

moss_miata_free on Flickr

The International shipping page (linked in the fine print above)

moss_miata_inter on Flickr

[Apu]

Thinking about this further, they could have used some flashing lights.

[ManiacLachy]

While I'm not suprised that International shipping wasn't included in the "Free Shipping" promotion , I am suprised that they would charge an amount without first clearing it with a customer, and this would be a point of contention for me. Shipping charges can really alter the perceived value of parts and I would never want to not know the full cost before approving the charges. I think that is the true "heads up" here.

[Magpie]

I just did a test purchase from Moss (over $75) and it is not possible to select "Ground Saver" method as in the add. The only shipping method is "Foreign Service". Again this could just be the part I selected for the test. What item(s) did you actually purchase as it would be good to repeat it just to see what is said?

On my test order the following was displayed in large red print:
You have ordered an item(s) that is shipped Direct from vendor or must go truck freight. You will be charged actual shipping charges plus handling. For a freight quote please contact us at 800-235-6954 Toll-Free or 805-681-3400 International. Thank you.

The conditions do state that it is up to the customer to request a quote for international orders over $100, if the customer does not ask for a quote then who is at fault? eLaw is a very interesting subject however Moss has not hidden there terms and conditions and it would appear in the checkout process there is sufficent warning and opportunities for the buyer to cancel, ask questions or request a quote.

[Snowmotion]

My advise.. Buy locally as much as possible as you are protected by Australian consumer law but. Your children will have a job in the future if we do this more.

[KevGoat]

The site in question is a good lesson in being wary and ensuring that one reads all the relevant information. The required information is all there, just a bit of a process to find it.

Other sites with as wide a range of goods and International sales are capable of charging freight at checkout, can't see why these can't. I'm lazy, can't be bothered emailing or phoning for details that I feel could/should be there already, so I've never actually purchased from these guys due to the lack of disclosure at checkout. Always found what I wanted elsewhere with an easier and safer process for the purchase.

[Mr Morlock]

Lets not ignore Magpie- he has correctly pointed out the info is there and he did a test order to confirm it. One reason you may not get a freight cost at check out is because domestic freight i.e. within USA is a very different ball game to international and mix of product may require a specific cost component to be calculated.

[sailaholic]

Agree morlock. As far as I can see the argument is the vendor added significant charges for freight with out first confirming the freight charge.

[manga_blue]

Freight charges and costs are often an issue with American sites. I try to avoid them as much as possible for that very reason - the brits, europeans and asians seem to be much more international market aware. The real problem here is that he handed over credit card details without confirming a total price. You should never do that with anyone anywhere - you could just as easily be conned that way in Australia. It's also very poor business practice by Moss - that's why I reckon it's worth the argument.

[KevGoat]

May even be worth a call to the Credit Card company.

[Magpie]

The issue is that the buyer has made a purchase and has not read the agreement.

I have not actually ordered from Moss Miata, however it would appear that the OP MAY have a recourse as the terms and conditions are not agreed to (click wrap type agreement) when the order is placed. Simply he has not agreed to the terms and conditions so MAY be able to fight the cost.

However from a legal persective, it is unlikley if Moss Motors has to comply with Australian consumer laws or whether an Australian court has any jurisdiction because it is not carrying on business in Australia. If Moss Motors is not carrying on a business in Australia then then only the consumer protection laws of the USA will apply. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE RATHER MY PERSONAL OPINION

[manga_blue]

Just what I was thinking too, about the card company. They may not like this sort of thing much either.

What I'm curious about is why so many on this forum are standing up for an American company with a poor business practice against one of us who feels conned. Personally I've marked this company down as an operation that takes your card numbers and charges what they like. For me they're blacklisted. I have looked at their products before and there are some temptations but not now.

[Magpie]

I'm not standing up for any company. I'm advocating people to read and understand what they are agreeing to. Ignorance is no defence in contract law, the same as silence is not acceptance.

Has all of the following happened:
1. offer and acceptance;
2. an intention between the parties to create binding relations;
3. consideration to be paid for the promise made;
4. legal capacity of the parties to act;
5. genuine consent of the parties; and
6. legality of the agreement

If any of the above have been breached then there is no contract. The contract is governed by the country/state stated in the contract.

Unfortunately my real job involves contracts and resolving 'issues'.