Race seat options

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:43 pm

We seem to be gravitating towards a discussion about seat height so, in terms of surviving a roll over:

1. How much protection does a hard top give?
2. How much protection does a soft top give?
3. How much extra protection will a roll bar such as a Brown Davis give?
4. Will the windscreen (A) pillars be any help?
5. How do you get a seat low enough that the top of your helmet will be below the fail point of your roll bar and A pillar combo?

For what it's worth, I'm only 5ft 9ins and have a Sparco Sprint V on standard rails with a BD roll bar. The top of my helmet is above a line between the top of the roll bar and the top of the A pillars (before any crushing). It seems to me this would be bad if I ever rolled the thing, hence my questions (aka acting as agent provocateur/devil's advocate).

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:46 am

Dave, don't be a troll. That is o/t here.

Do a search, and revive one of the several threads on these subjects, they have been done to death. Pun intended.

:mrgreen:

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:47 am

davekmoore wrote:We seem to be gravitating towards a discussion about seat height so, in terms of surviving a roll over:

1. How much protection does a hard top give? None
2. How much protection does a soft top give? None
3. How much extra protection will a roll bar such as a Brown Davis give? Some...YMMV depending on severity of accident
4. Will the windscreen (A) pillars be any help? Not in an NA / NB
5. How do you get a seat low enough that the top of your helmet will be below the fail point of your roll bar and A pillar combo? Remove the humps from the floor and go with some custom mounting to gain a small amount. Anything more than that and you will need to cut out the floor and weld in a lowered 'pan' for the seat to sit in, most regulations allow you to modify the floor to safely fit a seat.

I have used Sparco Sprint seats mounted on the stock sliding rail and I now use Ultrashield Spec Miata aluminium seats on Kazespec rails, I am still not low enough either from a comfort or safety point of view. The lack of proper side impact protection / support offered by these seats makes me uncomfortable but there is not much out there in the way of a containment seat that would actually go in an MX5.

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:51 am

Maybe I need an education in the difference between trolling and being an agent provocateur/devil's advocate whereby an up to date debate is created?

Postby **Okibi** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:43 am

All valid questions, my seat sits me as low as I can possibly go, lower than the standard seat. This has given more room between the height of my helmet and the height and the rollbar.

kenson · Postby **kenson** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:05 am

jasonc23 wrote:...I've ordered a Bride EXAS III which is due to arrive in a couple of weeks so will report on that when I get it (will also mean my Sparco will be for sale).
...AGI rollbar.

Keen to see how you go Jason! I have the AGI bar and need a lower (comfortable) seat that fits underneath.

ryuhou · Postby **ryuhou** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:01 am

also keen jason please update re seat trave w the exas iii

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:27 am

I have the Sparco Sprint on stock rails which I swap between the GM and the racing car as required.

Is anyone looking at one of the seats which have the head wings or better still already have one? I think that this will be my next update if I can find one that fits and I can still get in and out of the car without doing permanent injury to my ageing frame.

:mrgreen:

Trackphotos · Postby **Trackphotos** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:47 pm

-edit Okibi - no need to quote the post directly above your own-

I'd like to get a seat with wings, but there's no way to get one and keep the car road legal so it's not an option for me unless I start trailering it. This is a great example of why it would be a good idea, bet this guy's got a sore neck after it. Crash is at 1 minute in.

MattR · Postby **MattR** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:03 am

davekmoore wrote:SE aka NB8C.

The seat alone made it way easier to go round corners as it was no longer necessary to grip the steering wheel to avoid falling out of the seat.
Adding a 6 point harness was even better as it stops you falling forward under braking. Remember, though, that a harness is unsafe without a HANS device. Also note that it seems a 2" shoulder strap might fit some HANS devices better than a 3" one .

Not quite true.

A HANS device used with a harness will provide protection to the neck in a frontal accident than harness alone, but the use of a harness fitted correctly used in conjunction with the correct seat type is still a very safe option.

A six point harness with the correct seat type will offer much better protection than a 3 point lap sash or 4 point harness. And unless you are always, and I mean ALWAYS going to wear a HANS device when using a harness do not buy the harnesses with 2 inch webbing or the 2 inch section of webbing on the shoulder straps. If you do have an impact wearing a 2 inch shoulder strap rather than a 3 inch shoulder strap you will know why you should have used the 3 inch wide strap.

And make sure the harness is installed properly to suitable mounts and all the angles of the crotch straps, lap straps and shoulder straps are as recommended. And DO NOT use a harness with a seat with out the harness holes in the back rest, and make sure the seat fits you properly, that is your shoulders are not above the harness holes when sitting in it so the shoulder straps can work properly.

HANS devices have only been around for about 10 years or so, if that.

I have been using six point harnesses for about 20 years, have had 3 big crashes in race cars where the car has either been written off or severely damaged plus numerous other crashes where damage was less severe where a big hammer got the car running again. The only injuries being minor and usually some bruising caused by the harness. The worst injuries suffered was when I destroyed a Sports 1300 doing around 120mph at the top of bitupave hill at Amaroo and had something break in the suspension. The car went into the wall and destroyed itself pretty well, I could only salvage the motor and gear box, one wheel and got $12 for the scrap aluminium. I spent 3 days in bed with bruising from the harness, thankfully 3 inch straps, and bruised knees where they bounced around and smacked into the sides and bottom of the dash.

So does that mean for the all the years I have been racing where HANS devices have been unavailable that I have been dicing with death?????

I'm sorry but some of the misinformation that comes up on this forum would be laughable if it didn't have potentially dangerous repercussions for some readers who take all that is said on the forum as gospel.

maiku · Postby **maiku** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:29 am

hey guys, i was wondering, has anyone tried fitting Sparco monte Carlo to na6? i have seen it done and want to know what are the process, i.e shaving/filing base? to actually have it to fit properly.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:25 am

greenMachine wrote:I have the Sparco Sprint on stock rails which I swap between the GM and the racing car as required.

Is anyone looking at one of the seats which have the head wings or better still already have one? I think that this will be my next update if I can find one that fits and I can still get in and out of the car without doing permanent injury to my ageing frame.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=368990

Have a good look at that thread, there are a couple of options for mounting a containment seat but not without their own problems. You will really need to look at modifying the floor of your car by removing the steak seat mount humps and / or cutting out a section of the floor and tranny tunnel and welding in a panel to widen the cockpit.

Entry and exit will be tricky with a containment seat especially if you have a hard top.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:59 am

deviant wrote:
greenMachine wrote:I have the Sparco Sprint on stock rails which I swap between the GM and the racing car as required.

Is anyone looking at one of the seats which have the head wings or better still already have one? I think that this will be my next update if I can find one that fits and I can still get in and out of the car without doing permanent injury to my ageing frame.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=368990

Have a good look at that thread, there are a couple of options for mounting a containment seat but not without their own problems. You will really need to look at modifying the floor of your car by removing the steak seat mount humps and / or cutting out a section of the floor and tranny tunnel and welding in a panel to widen the cockpit.

Entry and exit will be tricky with a containment seat especially if you have a hard top.

Thanks, good read.

:mrgreen:

Ben MX5 · Postby **Ben MX5** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Hi there ,

I've got a Cobra Monaco Pro. It took a lot of work to get it in to my nb and get it right (reshaping the floor bumps & slightly bending the head rest back) but I'm happy enough now it's in.

Take a look at http://garagestar.com/shop/seat_rails_90-05.html. It would be good if you could get the seat forward of the rear floor bumps, but I don't if it would work.

I chose this seat based on advice that it would be an easy fit. Given the amount of work, I wonder if the cobra Sebring pro might have been a better choice. It's got the wings and is only 40mm wider - that's only 20mm per side. Packing up the right hand side of the seat by 5mm or so might be enough to allow the door to close.

Good luck.

Rgds
Ben.

Ned Loh · Postby **Ned Loh** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:49 am

Hi Ben,

those rails look interesting in a good way, in particular the slide mechanism. Pretty cheap really for what they are, but I guess that is the benefit of being a 'production item' rather than one off custom.

The Sebring Pro looks like a good seat, but I think the Evolution Pro would be a better fit? Sebring is 590 at the shoulders, Evolution Pro is 530

http://www.cobraseats.com/Sebring-pro

http://www.cobraseats.com/Evolution-pro

Possibly not quite as good lateral head protection in the Evo Pro, but better than a normal race seat, and still gives some level of visibility through the cut outs.

Tried to compare it to your seat (which obviously fits ok?). Is the shoulder width of your seat 550? I find it hard to read the website. ( http://www.cobraseats.com/App_Images/ms ... _spec2.gif ) Both the Evo Pro and Sebring Pro are slightly wider at the base than your Monaco Pro. How does your seat fit at the base? Would the little extra width of the Evo Pro and Sebring Pro be ok? Enough room for securing belts etc???

Ps. Someone buy an eve pro and tell me how it fits :-)