Cylinder honing.

[mrpham]

Hey all,

I'm looking into doing a quick re-ring on my spare block, just doing some reading about re-honing the cylinders and came across this:

http://www.snowvalley.20m.com/bikes/dnthone.htm

Long story short, the SAE did extensive testing and concluded that cylinder honing is bad, glazing isn't really an issue, only hone after a re-bore. Use cast-iron rings and not chrome.

Machine shop I uses says always re-hone, especially when the bores are glazed. Mine are slightly yellow and very shiny, which I'm told isn't good.

That site mentions the SAE, but doesn't reference to the actual paper.

Anyone know much on the topic?

[sailaholic]

Shane might be able to get the actual paper?


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[manga_blue]

I'd agree with him. I've often skipped deglazing and it beds just as fast and seems to last longer.

[tbro]

Have a read of this, I personally spend 2 to 3 hours a week just reading this stuff,

http://www.aera.org/publications/technical-articles/

or this

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/

Not saying who right or wrong, but these are written by the people who do this stuff day in and out and design the sh*t to do it with, including the
ring manufactures.

[mrpham]

Have a read of this, I personally spend 2 to 3 hours a week just reading this stuff,

http://www.aera.org/publications/technical-articles/

or this

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/

Not saying who right or wrong, but these are written by the people who do this stuff day in and out and design the sh*t to do it with, including the
ring manufactures.

Read through some of the articles in there, the ones that talk about honing don't say NOT to do it. Emailed a few aftermarket piston/rod/ring manufacturers and they said to hone.

[Magpie]

Emailed a few aftermarket piston/rod/ring manufacturers and they said to hone.

Maybe you need to ask the question of the manufacturers, that if you do not hone will it void the warranty on the piston/rod/ring?

tbro are you doing your reading on work time

[ralt]

Hi.
After reading the information? on here from various people I pose this question to you.
Why do all manufacturers of new engines hone their engines ? Surely they would save money by boring only maybe their research and development people over many many years know something many other "experts" do not.

[sailaholic]

Ralt have another read of the article. It says honing IS required on new bores. Where it's saying it's not required is on a in use bore that needs new rings only.


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[tbro]

tbro are you doing your reading on work time

These days there ain't no work time/my time.

So cylinder honing is bad??? poorly done maybe, done with the correct equipment by someone who know what they are doing ???


So to play Devil's advocate, measure up of bore to check for taper, ovality and if within manu specs, cylinder hone with best of equipment is approx.
what ????? $60???
Have you ever seen what happens when the new rings are fitted to a tapered bore????

Enter in the price of full gasket kit, bearings (or maybe you will reuse old ones ) rings oil etc and then NOT hone it out WTF????

2 things that any engine builder will tell you (1) cleanliness is next to godliness, no ifs or buts, all surfaces must be clean clean clean.
(2) DON"T take short cuts, do it once, do it properly, now I don't expect that you will deck the block to obtain the best seal surface for the head gasket,
or fit and then measure piston to deck height, but for peace of mind HONE the fu^&en thing.

Terry

[Ned Loh]

Provided the bore measures up ok, I'd suggest using one of these

http://www.brushresearch.com/product-line.php?line=1

There are many options to give you the correct bore finish for your rings. Will leave you with a 'Plateau Hone' finish. Best part of it is that you can do it all at home for not a lot of cost.

Practice on an old engine or whatever before you try your good engine. Rhythm is everything.

[Mr Morlock]

pay attention to Tbro- he is a pro. Even measuring bores etc is not really a job for amateurs who don't have the right measuring equipment or the knowledge of how to interpret or understand variations. I can guarantee that reading micrometers is not quite as straightforward as they might seem and cheap verniers are hardly precision interments.

[sailaholic]

Morlock, micrometers really are as easy as the look.

Also the article is not about "can I save $60 on a hone" but "will I have a FAR better engine if I don't "deglaze" an otherwise good bore"


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[mrpham]

Thanks for all the replies and it's definitely not about the money, either way the block, crank, pistons, rods will be going to the engine shop for measuring, machining and clean. I just wanted to be sure what I'll be doing is correct because I hate having to do things again due to error.

Every professional I've talked to so far says that honing is required for new rings and that glazing is bad. It's only that one article that I've read which says the opposite, still can't find the original SAE paper too (if it exists).

Also very interesting reading manga_blue's experience.

[manga_blue]

.. only when the bores are in spec - no taper, no step, no oval, proper ring gap - and you do a proper high load/high gas pressure bedding-in. I haven't done it for years though but I was wondering about it. The last rebuild on the NA8 included a hone and it's never made the compression figures it had before and I'd put that down to lost bore metal and honing residue, even after I went OCD cleaning them. I'd been kicking myself about it because at 175,000 the bores still had signs of the factory honing marks.

[tbro]

Last comment??

Again, I don't know who's right etc,
http://www.acl.co.nz/Tech/Re-ringing%20&%20Honing.pdf

Terry