Strut Brace discussion

[NitroDann]

Thats the idea.

[plohl]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Seriously, I <3 thread. I am honestly not surprised it's gone this far already from a just a really?

It's pretty easy to put a strut brace on at the track - do a blind test to get subjective feedback from the driver and compare it to lap times - it's Schrodinger's strut brace. Until the bonnet is opened the strut brace is both installed and not installed. Driver isn't allowed to know. Drivers are annoying anyway.

[NitroDann]

Wakefield on the 1st of next month, Ill bring a generic brace and we can play schrodingers strut brace, with fully blind tests, who is in?

Dann

[cookie]

Brace yourselves!

On a more helpful note. Adding a mazdaspeed non adjustable front made a large noticeable difference to the fwd. It added support increased rigidity through corners and kept the wheels aligned better. A must have in the 323's. Different suspension setup entirely in these so wouldnt be as drastic as above due to the shock mounted to arms vs knuckle.

[plohl]

Wakefield on the 1st of next month, Ill bring a generic brace and we can play schrodingers strut brace, with fully blind tests, who is in?

Dann

I would be.... but... it's a long trip.

I might be going to qr on wednesday night - I have a generic strut brace. I just need someone to install/not install it. The car has a cage though - probably after something with less cage...

[Pamex]

In a medication benefits test, a portion of participants will be given a placebo. Some that took the placebo will state they felt a difference. Doesn't mean there was one, even though they felt it.

[plohl]

Isn't that the nocebo effect?

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[Pamex]

Nocebo for you!

[narita]

Have we all come to a conclusion?


I read the 1st page and figured the following few pages would be people attempting to argue the effects of metal poles with dann.

[davekmoore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[plohl]

^gold!

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[toppertee]

^^^^^
Bahaha!!!! It's a fair cop!!!!

[gslender]

So is the general argument as to why it doesn't add much benefit due to the thinking that the subframe won't/can't flex and therefore adding better structural stiffness to the shock towers adds nothing to the suspension geometry?

In the picture below I've tried to show where the subframe connect to the upper body, and above that is the shock tower (where the shocks in the pic below bolt into).



On my car, the shock towers can move as much as 3mm inwards towards each other (and I assume outwards by 3mm too) just by lifting 1 front wheel off the ground. So this might translate to as much as 6mm of horizontal movement between these points above. Below that is the top of the subframe, and again, I can only assume that the subframe might be moving as much as 1-2mm in either direction.

This subframe is the only thing that is keeping the geometry of the front wheel in alignment - as you know, you can change toe or camber with less than 1 mm of angle change, so I can only wonder what stiff springs, better shocks and stronger sway bars would be doing to the front end if you don't have any bracing at the top to tie together that C section shape of the subframe - common shape you see in subframes for race car is box shaped subframes so that any force left or right (sectional) is reduced or cancelled out.

In addition, you have the engine mounts siting inside, and depending on the engine mods, that would also be twisting force on the subframe too.

Is this what some are saying is not needed, or does so little that is essentially nothing?

G

[NitroDann]

Yes, I am saying that I understand this and feel that the average strut brace as seen om mx5s does not and cannot make a quantifiable improvement in any way regarding handling performance, although other bracing mods that involves this area may, such as DOM tube welded to key areas WITH reinforcement and or triangulation also.

I really will bring a couple of braces to wakefield the 1st so anyone willing to guess if I have fitted one please let me know.

Dann

[Magpie]

Thanks Dann for taking the time to get some feedback from drivers. Will be interesting to read the feedback.

I feel that we would need a structural engineer to explain the forces (and their directions) at play in the front/rear ends and how a strut brace will transfer these. In my mind the strut brace will have minimal impact on vertical movements as the strut brace 'looks' like it would only be good for horizontal movements. Hence lifting up one wheel with/without a strut brace I would expect to see a similar vertical movement, however with a horizontal load this would be different as this is what the strut brace would be transferring efficiently.

This is where the issue of double wishbone suspension comes into the equation, that is double wishbone is more efficent in dealing with horizontal loads hence benefits less from a strut brace. This is not to say that a strut brace will not add anything, it will add, but it will have less impact than it would for a mcpherson strut.

The question is how where are measurements on the strut needed? Above and below in the middle? The 'struts' that go to the firewall (as per the type I have installed)? Vertical forces on the strut tower?

I'll await your feedback Dann