Strut Brace discussion

[toppertee]

What effect does a regular bolt on brace have on that?

What affect on performance does that have?

Dann

About the same as a stiffer sway bar?

[MattR]

Because the chassis is stiffer the suspension can work better in controlling and locating the wheels and also means that softer springs and damping can be used, giving greater control over the car and the reaction to bumps.

[kazama]

i dont think theres any solid back to back laptime testing for different shock tower braces however 949 racing and flyin miata both run them. this is a quote from 949s emilio "If I remove the factory shock tower brace in my 99 sport package the turn in is a touch less precise and a I get a little more cowl shake.....
By mistake I raced without mine once and thought something was wrong with the car, felt like the front tires were 6 psi low. The whole session I narrowly missed apexes and had to drop entry speeds a skosh to get the car to rotate in time. Chased air pressure for a another session before noticing the STB languishing in the pit, laughing at me. I seem to be more sensitive to car setup than most drivers I know so maybe others wouldn't notice the difference."

[gslender]

What effect does a regular bolt on brace have on that?

What affect on performance does that have?

Dann

Genuinely surprised you're taking that point of view.... You of all peeps should know that a stiffer chassis is better than one that isn't... Why else would chassis braces and frog arms exist if not?


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[toppertee]

i dont think theres any solid back to back laptime testing for different shock tower braces however 949 racing and flyin miata both run them. this is a quote from 949s emilio "If I remove the factory shock tower brace in my 99 sport package the turn in is a touch less precise and a I get a little more cowl shake.....
By mistake I raced without mine once and thought something was wrong with the car, felt like the front tires were 6 psi low. The whole session I narrowly missed apexes and had to drop entry speeds a skosh to get the car to rotate in time. Chased air pressure for a another session before noticing the STB languishing in the pit, laughing at me. I seem to be more sensitive to car setup than most drivers I know so maybe others wouldn't notice the difference."

is that the stock three point brace?

[NitroDann]

Because the chassis is stiffer the suspension can work better in controlling and locating the wheels and also means that softer springs and damping can be used, giving greater control over the car and the reaction to bumps.

This is conjecture still. Nothing you are saying proves or even implies that anything that can be measured with a stopwatch will improve.

What effect does a regular bolt on brace have on that?

What affect on performance does that have?

Dann

Genuinely surprised you're taking that point of view.... You of all peeps should know that a stiffer chassis is better than one that isn't... Why else would chassis braces and frog arms exist if not?

With full respect, products exist to profit from the sale of them.

Again, its a specific type of stiffness across specific points on the chassis that we are worried about, a regular strutbrace as seen on many forum members cars does not achieve this.

Dann

[MattR]

Umm yeah I did when I said I went quicker with strut brace than without a few posts up.

Because the chassis in my car is 25 years old and floppier than a rag doll any chassis stiffening will have a noticeable affect on the suspension performance and then times.

In a nc the effect of the strut brace will be a lot less noticeable as you are starting from a better base of a much stiffer chassis.

[johnnyreble]

When I fitted a tower brace my car felt stiffer immediately, with less body flex, but like fitting a racing seat it makes no difference to performance but makes a huge difference to how the driver feels whats going on and can take a couple of second off a lap, in my opinion it's a very cheap mod that makes a noticable difference.

[gslender]

Because the chassis is stiffer the suspension can work better in controlling and locating the wheels and also means that softer springs and damping can be used, giving greater control over the car and the reaction to bumps.

This is conjecture still. Nothing you are saying proves or even implies that anything that can be measured with a stopwatch will improve.

What effect does a regular bolt on brace have on that?

What affect on performance does that have?

Dann

Genuinely surprised you're taking that point of view.... You of all peeps should know that a stiffer chassis is better than one that isn't... Why else would chassis braces and frog arms exist if not?

With full respect, products exist to profit from the sale of them.

Again, its a specific type of stiffness across specific points on the chassis that we are worried about, a regular strutbrace as seen on many forum members cars does not achieve this.

Dann

Based on what? Your opinion ? I can prove it has benefit by measuring how without it the towers come closer or further apart without it, and by that I can be certain the frame geometry is changing


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[MattR]

An interesting and entertaining discussion that I will be saying adieu to as I am off to Singapore and Bali for ten days.

I cannot wait to see how the discussion evolves and the fun banter between protagonists......

[NitroDann]

Who cares about frame geometry, prove that it has non negligent effects on wheel geometry.

Dann

[johnnyreble]

Well, Dann just knows EVERYTHING doesn't he .. !!!

[NitroDann]

All I have done is ask for quantifiable proof of performance improvement.

Dann

[gslender]

All I have done is ask for quantifiable proof of performance improvement.

Dann

Are u seriously asking for proof that maintaining a stable chassis geometry is required and beneficial? If so, I'm gonna stop because you're just arguing for fun.


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[NitroDann]

I have asked for quantifiable proof of vehicle performance improvement by fitting a regular off the shelf bolt on strut tower brace to an NA/NB chassis mx5.

Dann