Hid projectors in a 7" sealed beam...

green_comet · Postby **green_comet** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:33 am

As long as you run HID's in a projector designed for HID's and you get them aligned correctly you will be fine. I would jump on those TRS offerings if I still had my Clubman.

fastfreddygassit · Postby **fastfreddygassit** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:57 pm

green_comet wrote:As long as you run HID's in a projector designed for HID's and you get them aligned correctly you will be fine. I would jump on those TRS offerings if I still had my Clubman.

ditto if I had my NA8.

green_comet · Postby **green_comet** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:46 am

Looks like they're finally up for sale on their site.

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/complete-retrofit-kits/morimoto-sealed7-headlights-48491.html#.UwVBmnMzEm9

rjastra2 · Postby **rjastra2** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:39 pm

This is an overlooked development in HIDS

http://www.carlightblog.com/2012/02/14/ ... -everyone/

The D8S bulb - is only 25W / 2000 Lumens. Normal HID bulb is usually 35W/3000+ lumens

Why this development... it circumvents the auto levelling/washer regs imposed by EU.

I assume that you could do a projector retrofit on a NB8B+ using these as the light source and still be road legal.

In comparison... the best legal H7 55w halogens are in the 1500 lumens range and have quite short lifespans.

fastfreddygassit · Postby **fastfreddygassit** » Thu May 08, 2014 12:34 am

Excellent find!
I am surprised that our resident lighting expert didn't find this first. :shock:

Snowmotion · Postby **Snowmotion** » Thu May 08, 2014 3:11 pm

Does anyone know if this style of light could be fitted to a NB8A?

Or will the wiring handle a more powerful globe.
I was a little surprised the first time I drove the car at night as I felt like my lights were off compared with the output of all the cars around me. :shock:

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Thu May 08, 2014 7:04 pm

some just don't grasp the fundamentals. You cannot just throw these light sources into any lamp and expect these will perform properly. All OEM headlamp lighting is designed as a package and must pass regs. You cannot just put a hid light into a projector lamp or reflector and hope for the best- thats the job of photometrists and companies spending a lot of money to produce headlamp systems. If someone wants to buy a new VW or whatever with an HID it will work and it will cost whatever it costs. It also does not mean that a conventional lighting system does not produce a good lamp. Its not going to make a scrap of difference with MX5s to date- if you add hids in Au then they are not legal and can also be a annoyance to others. As far as I know Mazda have not offered a bi xenon or HID etc for the Au market and if they did would people pay the extra for a car which is already too expensive and waiting for a replacement. Incidentally unless things have changed Osram made light sources but left the headlamp design to the "set makers"

Snowmotion · Postby **Snowmotion** » Thu May 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Thanks for the condescending response Mr Mortlock.

I asked the question as I was shocked by the poor lighting on the MX5 and I believe it would be far safer with better lighting.
Yes, you are right that most mods on any car will make them illegal but this is the Nanny state/country we live in and you are looking to protect.
According to Australian law bike helmets used in the USA and Europe are not good enough for Australian heads so we have to have our own standard so a pin can not fall on your head from above and all this safety adds $30k to the production of every helmet model/shell size that is produced, that you and I pay.

The same is done with the ADR in Australia on cars and I as a thinking individual question much of there logic and am prepared to use common sense in how I look after my car and safety.

You do realize that you could not buy the same MX5 model as a new car today as the ADR say that they must have stability control, etc, etc..... BUT not a problem for you to drive your 20 year old car lacking all this mandatory technology. So who is being dangerous now.

All I know is that the function of the NB8A headlights is ordinary to say the least. I would like to improve it and am asking question to find a better solution.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Fri May 09, 2014 11:36 am

I don't think the average punter has the remotest idea about colour temp or lumens- these are merely buzz words. Osram state that a driver does not even notice the diff between 2000 and 3000! What is not understood is that you cannot mix reflectors or inserts or projector lamps with light sources not designed as a complete unit. Furthermore the ability to make those units comply with specs set for auto lighting requires the facilities and the technical know how..

It'a not right that the 7in insert on MX5s is a poor lamp- if its a sealed beam beam or a tired semi sealed beam its time for an update . Consider problems with their existing unit, voltage drops on their vehicle, poor adjustment or poor eyesight. The round parabola is the best as a reflector and the 7in round was the benchmark for many years but whereas the US persisted with sealed beams the rest of the world had gone to halogen lamps. Later headlamps may be better but the 7in is still pretty good if everything is working properly.

The 8A P1 is a conventional reflector headlamp- i.e. with moulded shape and using halogen lamps- it will suffer merely from the reflector size.My impression was that they were at least as good as the previous round units? As a basis of comparison a falcon headlamp of the same era is powerful esp on high beam but the reflector is much larger. The P2 is of course a projector lamp and only relies on the reflector for high beam and overall its a good lamp esp on low beam. Replacing the bulbs in P1 with another light source might gain an improvement and if folks want to go with xenon they can try.

ADRs cover cars of the day but if they are met then the cars are at least still legal today. Lighting regs have probably not actually been changed to any great extent. The current trend for headlamps seems to be projector lamps.

Snowmotion · Postby **Snowmotion** » Fri May 09, 2014 11:59 am

Thank you for the very informative reply Mr Mortlock. Much appreciated.

rjastra2 · Postby **rjastra2** » Sat May 10, 2014 2:37 am

I was more talking about MX5s that have a project unit for the main dipped beam.

There are quite a few companies that can supply new projector units that are HID bulb compatible.
If these 25w/2000 lumen bulbs were used in them then they wouldn't contravene ADR.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:47 pm

an hid fitting into a standard halogen projector is not going to be the same in light distribution and performance than a halogen bulb that was designed for the lamp. There is no chance that an HID light source in a standard set up will be ADR compliant because no one will have tested and certified. The Osram lamp will also not have the same mounting / base as the halogen lamp either. I reckon if one has a projector lamp its probably a pretty good light anyway. There are no shortage of sellers offering products that do not comply with lighting regs. Also I don't think anyone would stand a chance of proving for the sake of a fine that a reduced wattage precludes the need to self levelling and washing- the rule will I would guess make no mention of wattage anyway.

rjastra2 · Postby **rjastra2** » Mon May 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Morlock... I was specifically talking about projector replacements designed for HID bulbs. Quite a few companies in the USA do that.

These bulbs (D8S and a couple of others) were designed to allow manufacturers to sell cars fitted with HID headlights without the bulky (and heavy) washer and auto levelling systems. This reduces weight and complexity and cost. It is also important as the US market doesn't require auto levelling or washers. So manufacturers can develop a low cost common solution for all markets.

green_comet · Postby **green_comet** » Mon May 12, 2014 2:41 pm

No, don't engage him. He's just going to say crap about how they won't meet ADR's here in aus and that you'll still need a self levelling setup along with washer jets. It's info we already know but somehow he thinks he's schooling everyone with his overly long posts. Just don't post here anymore and talk to people on Miata.net about lighting.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Snowmotion · Postby **Snowmotion** » Mon May 12, 2014 2:45 pm

green_comet wrote:It's info we already know but somehow he thinks he's schooling everyone with his overly long posts. Just don't post here anymore and talk to people on Miata.net about lighting.

Sent from my Nexus 7

Don't give up on posting information on modifications legal or not. This is the sort information we all need that we each as individuals filter through to determine the path for your own car.
It is Mr Mortlocks problem that he does not agree but do not let his posts stop the forum from exploring interesting ideas or it will soon become very boring and I am sure the admins do not want that.