Lap timers - Harry's?

[manga_blue]

Qstarz are only for Androids not Iphones -

I've heard this before and really don't understand it. Qstarz just puts out the industry standard NMEA GPS protocol. I've used it successfully with Android phones, PCs and Nokia S60 and Symbian phones. Does Apple require a proprietary or non-standard GPS protocol?

edit: ah, just found it. It's a proprietary block in the iPhone's bluetooth software. You can by-pass it of you jailbreak the iphone. http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/

[Dweezle]

I believe iphones do not use standardized Bluetooth.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Trackphotos]

Qstarz are only for Androids not Iphones -

I've heard this before and really don't understand it. Qstarz just puts out the industry standard NMEA GPS protocol. I've used it successfully with Android phones, PCs and Nokia S60 and Symbian phones. Does Apple require a proprietary or non-standard GPS protocol?

edit: ah, just found it. It's a proprietary block in the iPhone's bluetooth software. You can by-pass it of you jailbreak the iphone. http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/

Typical Apple. "What's that? You want to use something other than a default ring tone? Sure we can help you with that, just install iTunes and let us decide this is a new device and erase everything on it for you, including the file you want to use as a ringtone!"

[Muzdaman]

One of the reasons racechrono moved to android and not iphone was the inability to use an external GPS receiver on iPhones.

[Suspense]

You definitely can't use the external GPS suggestions on Harry's site… (which have been there for at least the 2 years I've been using it, possibly longer).
http://www.gps-laptimer.de/Compatibility.html

The iPhones use standardised bluetooth and were the first phones to use Bluetooth 4.0.

I'm not sure where people get their information from before posting incorrectly as fact.

[manga_blue]

I hope you feel really well informed now, Craig.

Harry's site gives a list of receivers which they say work, but susense says they don't. Qstarz say on their own site that their receivers don't work on iPhones but link to a site that has a workaround. Most of us say that you need 5 or 10Hz but some say 1Hz is OK though anytime I've tried it it's rubbish.

After stuffing around with Nokias and Androids for ages I've found the best setup by far is racechrono on a primitive old Nokia S60 E52: dirt cheap, most robust bluetooth connection, simplest interface, least bugs, battery lasts for days of timing, clearest on-the-spot results display and analysis.

[deviant]

I successfully used an emprum gps dongle on my iphone 4 fwiw.

[mazmad]

I hope you feel really well informed now, Craig.

lol yes, completely confused now.

I will give Deviant's dongle a try. It's a stop gap for a few months. Thanks all!

[Suspense]

My post was a bit of dry sarcasm in response to all those saying you can't use an external GPS with an iPhone which is just plain nonsense.

Just as with the garbage about iPhones using non-standard Bluetooth when they've been at the forefront of Bluetooth standards.

[Magpie]

As previously mention VBox has a product that works with the iPhone:

The VBOX Sport can be used with any type of vehicle: Car, Motorbike, Bicycle, Jet-Ski, Powerboat etc, and you will be able to log accurate GPS data (E.g. speed, acceleration, distance, time) directly to the supplied SD card, allowing you to improve your performance using our analysis software – Circuit Tools. The VBOX Sport is officially certified by Apple and connects to iPhone™, iPod Touch™, or iPad™ via a Bluetooth connection, enhancing the GPS reception on iOS devices, or adding GPS functionality to those which don’t have it already

Features:
20Hz GPS engine
8hr battery life
Bluetooth enabled
Compatible with Harry's Lap Timer app
Waterproof
Internal GPS antenna
Socket for external GPS antenna
USB charging
SD card logging
Herbert Richter mounting points
Free data analysis software



on GPS logging rates:
1hz = once per second
10hz = 10 times per second
20hz = 20 times per second

[rossint]

You can also get an external GPS that plugs into the dock connector of the iPhone.
http://bad-elf.com

[mazmad]

Thanks Ross. I am being el-cheapo, will try without first.

[MINX]

Thanks Ross. I am being el-cheapo, will try without first.

I find it works well - on iphone 4s
Times are close to 'official' times.
Clicks over quickly at start finish line and shows if you ar up or down on previous lap at a glance.
And overlay video function is also good.
Sure the peak speeds on the graph may be out a touch but gives you a good idea.
You can see it running on screen here, and example of video overlay using iphone only in second vid.
If you already have a phone, then it is so cheap. If you want pro quality you have to pay for it.

[Magpie]

I find the VBox GPS speed matches very well with both my speedo and wheel speed sensor. However there are a lot of issues that will affect GPS accuracy, not to mention chip used but also number/quality of satellites.

This is a very good introduction to GPS from Trimble http://www.trimble.com/gps_tutorial/. I have used this presentation many times to explain GPS.

If you want cheap buy an Arduino a GPS chip and a display. All up Ebay from about $100

[manga_blue]

I'm bored out of my brain hanging around waiting for my bones to knit and ligaments to tie themselves together again. So, FWIW, I went on with the bluetooth/iphone research. Everything about it is contradictory but this is as near as I can get to a consistent story and it might help someone someday.

Most commercial bluetooth GPS receivers use a standard bluetooth protocol called BluetoothTM Serial Port Profile - SPP, or sometimes called SPP for GPS. It emulates a serial cable to provide a simple realtime data transfer service. It commonly connects logging devices such as the GPS receivers, heart monitors, OBD scanners, etc.

As Suspense said Apple is right up to date with bluetooth releases, except that they only support a small proportion of the common bluetooth protocols, typically those associated with phone calls, address books, SMS and A/V apps. IOS does not support many/any(?) of the common data protocols. The problem is outlined here: http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Bluetooth

Apple lists the protocols it does support at http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3647 SPP is not there.

Harry's lists the GPS receivers that do connect to iphones, etc at http://www.gps-laptimer.de/Compatibility.html. Some use direct physical connection, Some use bluetooth and when they do the makers are very coy about the protocol used.

General forum chat supports the non-SPP issue and typically points to jailbreak and then installing roqyBT from. http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/ if you want to use most GPS or heart monitors or similar scanners/loggers over bluetooth.

The reason for going to external receivers is sampling frequency. At 1Hz you can get lap times accurate to a couple of tenths but little else. At 5Hz you get lap times within a couple of hundredths of Dorian readings and more importantly you can pick gear change points, braking zones, racing lines, in-corner speeds, etc. AT 10Hz it's all just a bit sharper and you get much more useful acceleration data. With 5Hz and a phone you have enough info in your hand immediately after a session to work out where you went wrong/right and where you can focus your improvements in the next session. At 1Hz that would be almost impossible. Guran published some plots of 1Hz vs higher frequencies a while back, you'll see what it means.