Are we hub centric?

[toymx5]

Benny,

You're spot on there ! I've been trying to upload a copy of the warning sticker mounted to MOMO wheels but the text is too small to read in the copy.

The sticker reads as follows:
'This wheel is equipped with a special hub centering system using a low tolerance aluminium centering ring. It is dangerous to mount this wheel without the use of the proper centreing ring. Consult the MOMO application list for the appropriate ring.

I also have a MOMO document which states that the hub centering ring only serves the purpose of centering the wheel correctly on the hub and does not carry any load, it states all the load is taken by the lug nut and stud.

The use of hub centering rings is a safety issue for the purpose of ensuring that the wheel fits flush and tightly against the hub allowing the lug nuts to be properly and evenly secured.

An added benefit seems to be the reduction of the dreaded wheel wobble so may people experinece at around 100 kph.

[greenMachine]

My mate at Tempe Tyres would NEVER fit a new alloy wheel to a car without using a hub ring, and he has virtually every size available.

He reckons that you can certainly get away without using it, but he has found after many years of experience, that it is always safer to use them.
He reckons that they have had a number of out-of-balance problems with aftermarket wheels that were not fitted with the hub rings.

I do agree that a plastic ring can't take all the forces of a wheel going around a corner with a slick tyre on it, but it does help to make sure the wheel doesn't move around on the studs.
If one of the wheel nuts is just a little loose, you run the risk of the wheel being able to move around, and once it starts moving, then it will place huge stresses on the nuts.

Benny, if a wheels wants to move (ie the nut is loose), a piece of plastic will have all the effect of putty: why do they call it plastic - because it is.

As for balance, it beggars the imagination that a piece of plastic could hold a wheel in a different position to that which the (properly applied and tightened) wheelnuts would have the wheel. A metal one would, but the stresses caused by the conflict between the wheelnuts and the ring would worry me - they may not lead to wheel failure or bent/broken studs, but I would not bet on it, not with my car/life.

Thinking this through, if a metal one was used which did hold the wheel in a different position (immoveably), as the wheelnuts were tightened, they would not sit neatly in their conical housing in the wheel - they would sit at an angle, or perhaps displaced slightly from the central axis of the housing (ie the stud would not be dead centre and perpendicular to the housing). I suppose the result of this is that as they were tightened, they would grind away the softer aluminium of the wheel, distorting the wheel's mating surface. That would (probably) be ok, but when the wheel next comes off, the wheel would need to go on with the ring in exactly the same position relative to the wheel - or else another grinding event would occur in the same relative position to the centreing ring. Worst case, after a period you have all four of your wheel nuts nicely tightened - in four misshapen housings.

Which now leads me to think that next time I buy second hand wheels, there is one more question I need answered

Benny, I can well imagine your mate wants to meet the market, and good on him - I suspect his 'results' may have more to do with the placebo effect though.

[project.r.racing]

Benny, if a wheels wants to move (ie the nut is loose), a piece of plastic will have all the effect of putty: why do they call it plastic - because it is.

As for balance, it beggars the imagination that a piece of plastic could hold a wheel in a different position to that which the (properly applied and tightened) wheelnuts would have the wheel. A metal one would, but the stresses caused by the conflict between the wheelnuts and the ring would worry me - they may not lead to wheel failure or bent/broken studs, but I would not bet on it, not with my car/life.

Thinking this through, if a metal one was used which did hold the wheel in a different position (immoveably), as the wheelnuts were tightened, they would not sit neatly in their conical housing in the wheel - they would sit at an angle, or perhaps displaced slightly from the central axis of the housing (ie the stud would not be dead centre and perpendicular to the housing). I suppose the result of this is that as they were tightened, they would grind away the softer aluminium of the wheel, distorting the wheel's mating surface. That would (probably) be ok, but when the wheel next comes off, the wheel would need to go on with the ring in exactly the same position relative to the wheel - or else another grinding event would occur in the same relative position to the centreing ring. Worst case, after a period you have all four of your wheel nuts nicely tightened - in four misshapen housings.

Which now leads me to think that next time I buy second hand wheels, there is one more question I need answered

Benny, I can well imagine your mate wants to meet the market, and good on him - I suspect his 'results' may have more to do with the placebo effect though.

plastic - not what a HCS should be made out of. not a good argument for against.

as for not centering the wheel and causing displacement issues over time. it is actually the opposite to your discription and argument. you've just taking the benefits of HCSs and said they are all negetives.

in the end, it is the owners own choice whether to have or not have HCSs. if you have them, that is your decission. if you wanna ignore the engineers/manufacturers that designed the wheels and not have then, that is your decission also.

i do not think that manufacturers designed HCSs so retailers could scam another $15-$20 out of consumers. lol

[goonie]

Never having bought wheels, I did not even realise hub rings existed.

I've changed a few tires in my time (some being aftermarket wheels) and even then did not notice if hub rings were on or not. From memory, I don't think I've ever fitted a wheel onto a hub that was a snug fit.

So... after looking at some hub centric spacers with a hub bore of 56.1mm, I now need to find a hub ring to fit it onto a 54.1mm.

Will 2mm of plastic/alloy make any difference? I noticed that some of the examples here required a thicker ring which probably makes it more important. But 2mm?

Now I have to go home and check if I have hub rings on my current wheels... is everyone using them on their aftermarket rims?

[MattR]

I have yet to worry about using them on any of my cars, from standard shopping trolleys through to modified old and newer cars.

Get the right wheel nuts to suit the wheels and you won't have to worry about them.

[zossy1]

Anyone who has ever installed new wheel studs in a hub will know how important it is to run hub centric rings, or 54.1mm bore wheels (either or).

If your studs are not perfectly aligned, and you don't have your wheels centred, you will have what appears to be a massive wheel balance problem (when in fact all it is is a wheel that is mounted off centre).

Now usually, if running stock studs that have been run with OEM bore wheels, you won't have huge problems as the studs will probably be nice and straight. Me though - I wouldn't trust them on a race car or under anything other than sedate road driving conditions.

[kazama]

as long as you seat/tighten the nuts by hand prior to final torquing itll be centered. our lugs are tapered so they center the wheel. centering rings are mainly used for ease of mounting

[zossy1]

as long as you seat/tighten the nuts by hand prior to final torquing itll be centered. our lugs are tapered so they center the wheel. centering rings are mainly used for ease of mounting

They only centre your wheel if the studs themselves (all of them!) are straight and properly seated in the hub. Most are, but not all. Your decision but I'll always use them on my cars.

[MattR]

Anyone who has ever installed new wheel studs in a hub will know how important it is to run hub centric rings, or 54.1mm bore wheels (either or).

If your studs are not perfectly aligned, and you don't have your wheels centred, you will have what appears to be a massive wheel balance problem (when in fact all it is is a wheel that is mounted off centre).

Now usually, if running stock studs that have been run with OEM bore wheels, you won't have huge problems as the studs will probably be nice and straight. Me though - I wouldn't trust them on a race car or under anything other than sedate road driving conditions.

Never worried about that when replacing wheel studs on my Zed every couple of years for racing. Used both types of wheel mounts as well, tapered nut seats and th old old school nuts with a large shank that fitted inside of the wheel.

Never worried about them on my other track cars either, including one that ran steel rims due to rules, and wheels were swapped every week or so for track or road duty.

I'm not dead yet and none of my cars have had a wheel, nut, stud or hub failure.

[zossy1]

Never worried about that when replacing wheel studs on my Zed every couple of years for racing. Used both types of wheel mounts as well, tapered nut seats and th old old school nuts with a large shank that fitted inside of the wheel.

Never worried about them on my other track cars either, including one that ran steel rims due to rules, and wheels were swapped every week or so for track or road duty.

I'm not dead yet and none of my cars have had a wheel, nut, stud or hub failure.

Plenty of smokers make it into their 90s and die of causes other than lung cancer too. Doesn't make smoking safe. For the sake of a $40 set of rings, why risk a $$$$$ race car?

[MattR]

Because they aren't needed..... And they become more hassle than they are worth when changing wheels over, plus all they do is help centre the wheels when you first mount them.

I seem to be able to centre my wheels on my cars when fitting them and haven't had a problem yet. i even remember not to use the 5 stud wheels on the 4 stud cars....

[kazama]

Never worried about that when replacing wheel studs on my Zed every couple of years for racing. Used both types of wheel mounts as well, tapered nut seats and th old old school nuts with a large shank that fitted inside of the wheel.

Never worried about them on my other track cars either, including one that ran steel rims due to rules, and wheels were swapped every week or so for track or road duty.

I'm not dead yet and none of my cars have had a wheel, nut, stud or hub failure.

Plenty of smokers make it into their 90s and die of causes other than lung cancer too. Doesn't make smoking safe. For the sake of a $40 set of rings, why risk a $$$$$ race car?

949 racing doesnt stock them because theyre "not needed"
tire rack only stocks them because people buy them. rudy himself has stated they arent necessary
goodwin says they only help for ease of mounting

once the lugs are snugged down fully the lugs take ALL of the load

[MattR]

A hub centric ring’s sole purpose is to help align and center the wheel and tire assembly on the vehicle’s hub pilot. Once the wheel assembly is torqued, the hub centric ring’s job is complete. Hub rings help reduce and can eliminate wheel and tire vibrations caused during installation. Hub rings do not carry any load.

This is from a quick Google search, and the site is.http://thesquealingtire.com/hub-centric-rings-defined/

They are handy if you are a franchise shop that employs special people to fit wheels and tyres who don't or can't centre a wheel when fitting them.

Another furphy is the balance bullshit that is sprouted. How can they help balance something that is out of balance, in most cases wheels and tyres are balanced off the car, so any vibration from inbalance has nothing to do with the wheel and tyre unless something has happened to put them out of balance. To cure most vibration cured by the hubcentric rings, check your wheel nuts, more chance that one or two are loose.

In most cases if your wheel studs are bent, you won't be fitting a wheel over them anyway, that and it is pretty easy to see if you have a bent wheel stud. Only ones I have ever had have been due to collision damage on the track where I was cleaned up by a TR8 and he ripped the whole right rear wheel, hub, brakes and half a drive shaft out of the car. And that was only one stud because we dropped the broken hub on the workshop floor removing it so it could be replaced.

[zossy1]

<facepalm>

I think you misunderstand guys. You are under the misapprehension that I care whether you use them. Truth is, I honestly don't give a $hit if you don't use them. Your wheels, your car.

I will continue to use them as I have seen misaligned wheel studs in a hub. I have mounted a wheel on a set of studs and watched an open end wheel nut pull a stud straight on a hub centric wheel. That was enough for me, end of story.

Last time I post in this thread...

[project.r.racing]

949 racing doesnt stock them because theyre "not needed"

say what?