TICO the SE

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tomli123001
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Continue

Postby tomli123001 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:32 pm

So back to the Chiptorque. I was particularly amazed by them when seeing this link and making the ECU rev at 8000rpm with a factory ECU. Of course, only applicable when you have a larger turbo.
Image

Apparently, they have 2 stages. One is to extend the rev range to 7100RPM and the other was to the 8000RPM.

7000RPM youtube


8000RPM youtube


http://www.chiptorque.com.au/miata-standard-ecu-8k-rpm/

To my relatively standard car, 7100RPM is enough. No power increases after over 6000RPM really and a stable flat power curve after 6000 to 7000RPM.
However, it addresses the fuel cut problem I mentioned in my last post, so I won't shoot through my 1st gear too quickly and not to the fuel cut range.
When the REV falls back from higher point, it will stay on boost better and stay in higher RPM range.

I met Lachlan there, the Mazda tuning Guru, I must say. He specializes also in MPS 3 and 6 tuning. He had a book of tuning dyno graphs of his customers on display at the shop. I asked him how he got involved with Mazdaspeed Aus and developed SP. He said, he was beating the Mazda speed team all the times with RX7 racing in Tasmania at the time, so eventually Mazda approached him for tuning. He said the SP could easily have 20 more kW, but he tuned it down on request by the Mazda.

The say I was there was very hot at 35 C deg. So really a terrible day for Dyno power run. But it really help show what my problems are.
In all below graphs, the blue is after tuning. Red is as dríven in. Note that it is inline with GT Auto's butt dyno's figure, if not more conservative.

So now, I will show the Power and PSI boost curve. This really shows why a Manual boost tee is very very BAD.
In my before tuning form, there was a huge boost spike at 4000RPM at the set 9-10 PSI, but then dropped off very quickly after 4000RPM.
You can also see clearly the FAMOUS SE bog between 4500 and 5000 RPM.
After tuning, the boost stays much more smoothly without a spike. But the curve is still very waving and not smooth. So my manual tee must go next.
Image

This graph below has my torque in it.
You can clearly see the fuel cut at 6500 sharp. Now it extends smoothly into 7000RPM.
With the new tune, I get a very usable flat power band after 5500RPM and flat torque band between 4500 - 5500 rpm.
Even with the hot weather considered, the car did not give a high peak power number. However, I believe it is a lot smoother than a lot other Dyno I saw and it gives a good area underneath compared to stock form.
Image

Lastly, the Air to Fuel ratio curve here.
Accordingly to Lachlan, the ideal AFR is 11.8 - 12.2 for a turbo car (below 14.7 to accomadate for variants such as weather and fuel). My is a little rich at 11ish on the day. But it is a hot day, so it will help when the days are cooler in most of the time in the year.
Note that their meter can only read 10 as minimum, so the car as dríven in was apparently very rich must be (strange, as I do expect lean suggested by most thread here after intake and exhaust mods)
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NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby tomli123001 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:38 pm

sailaholic wrote:Changing your rim size (when done correctly) makes no difference you the gap between wheel and guard. It just makes the tire sidewall taller. Ie drop 2 inches in rim size, your tire side wall will be 1 inch taller ( remember sidewall is on both sides of the rim so only changes by 1/2 the rim diameter change. )


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I did a calculation actually. 1" = 25.4mm
Factory diameter with factory 205/40/R17 tyre is = 205mm*40%*2 + 17*25.4mm = 595.8mm

with 15" rim and most popular 195/50/R15 or 205/50/R15 will give below diameters:
195/50/R15 = 195mm*50%*2 + 15*25.4mm = 576mm
205/50/R15 = 205mm*50%*2 + 15*25.4mm = 586mm

That is still 20mm and 10mm difference from y current set up.
With 10mm wheel gap, I can stick my finger in between, whereas now, I can not. so the difference is obvious.
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby tomli123001 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:43 pm

Another note of why I stayed with my factory wheels are:

- I do think SE needs racing hart to be SE and looks nice factory style.
- As explained in my last post, the 17" wheel is larger, so gives me the desparate clearance needed to clear speed bumps.
- I can drive up my drive way gutter still
- the mechanical speedo will be still accurate.
- Larger wheel is equivalent to taller gears, so I can stay on boost for longer before changing gears.
- stiffer sidewall for better turn in.

Of course there are down sides below, but I do not track or race, so I can live with it.
- trade for heavier wheels
- supposedly harsher rides and slower on straight (but can be compensated by tyre pressure slightly and SE is still less crushing than NA)
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Drive and fun

Postby tomli123001 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:48 pm

Ok, here are the now left overs from ChipTorque

old injectors
Image

and my factory chip removed.
Image

After an intercooler, it is now fun time.
Image

I borrowed a photo form FM. Comparsion between the cooling pro and stock.
Image

A bit of mind fighting though before I first time got back onto Mt Nebo road again. But just a nice gentle cruise. Slow in most peoples's terms.
I feel much better now.
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NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: Continue

Postby Lokiel » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:43 pm

tomli123001 wrote::
Note that their meter can only read 10 as minimum, so the car as dríven in was apparently very rich must be (strange, as I do expect lean suggested by most thread here after intake and exhaust mods)
:


The lean-ness will be more noticeable when you do the exhaust mod too because your injectors will no longer be able to provide enough fuel.

Mass-producing manufacturers don't tend to over-engineer components. In the car industry, components allow for an additional 12-20% over-spec tolerance for safety and reliability.

The stock SE has about 110rwkw.
A CAI + MBC set to about 10psi will yield ~135rwkw which is 22.7% above stock so the 265cc injectors are probably over their limit.
The addition of a 2.5" or 3" exhaust will yield another 10rwkw so you'll be at ~145rwkw, which is 35% above stock, definitely above the stock injector's capabilities.

If the stock SE originally came with the CAI, the ChipTorque tune, a boost gauge and 15 or 16" rims, it would have been received far better by the public - what we actually got was a half-arsed factory-crippled turbo car instead with "heavy feet".
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Re: Continue

Postby tomli123001 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:34 pm

The RX8 injectors are in there now already when tuned at Chiptorque. But I am just surprised that it was not lean before the bigger injectors.
Jason suggested to have the car back on GT Auto's dyno next time again, to get a another reading in same reference and compare against my old Dyno there.

I short, I think Chiptorque is an alternative to aftermarket computer and cheaper. You will not be able to tune yourself as much, but for people who are not into self tuning or endless mods, it just may be a good option and the driving quality, electrical and idle are perfectly factory like and controlled.
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby bear2230 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:45 pm

Lachlan is the man. No question. There are quite a few of the SP guys that have been back to him for a retune and are all happy. Significantly poorer but still happy.
If you can keep the factory ECU and you are happy with that level of boost then keep it forever
I have a Haltech PS1000 and many, many hours on the dyno and although I am really happy now with the tune. It's miles away from the idle smoothness and Idle stability when the Aircon Kicks or turning the lights on or any other of the voltage dropping setting Mazda has spent 100's of hours perfecting.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby kenson » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:25 pm

Good to see you made it Tom!
I enjoyed reading your thread. Also thanks for a detailed opinion on the ChipTorque solution.
I'll be doing something ECU related next and your experience is definitely a help.

Keep it up! :beer:

Also loving the red/black combo. Here's my car (looks the same):
Image
(Credit goes to Simon Corston, it looks better in the photo then in person haha)

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby tomli123001 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:55 am

Thank you guys for the comments.
ChipTorque is NOT cheap.

There is an upfront cost replacing the chip, but the regular tuning afterwards has been reasonable and inline with other tuning shops.

In regards to SP. Lachlan said he loves the CVT and said it was a good thing to have. It had been described as a headache by many tuner and people on forum. I had no idea about it, until he laughed off by saying he knows ways of controlling it and the SP's CVT is a great thing to have.

He mentioned also a few secret prototype SPs out of the 101 cars known to be produced and they were shipped back to Japan before SE came along. So interesting stories I heard.

With everything unchanged, Lachlan wanted me to install his Excede units and control a boost solenoid to get rid of that unstatble boost in my graph and keep it up there. He promised a 150-155KW at the wheels afterwards.

I told him that I loved the drivability and wanted a fast street car, not peak power or on track. He apparently highly praised on the factory turbo and asked me to keep it. However, I got my heart set on a GT2560R already, which is equally small, but far more efficient and faster spooling I heard.

I have spent enough money so far. I will hold off on the stage 2 and drive to know my car better for now. I will update you soon, when I can not resist the stage 2.
Bottom line is I plan to next build my engine again and I am very very very keen to find out the ultimate power figures of the factory turbo set up with a built engine at its limit boost level.
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby tomli123001 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:37 am

kenson wrote:Good to see you made it Tom!
I enjoyed reading your thread. Also thanks for a detailed opinion on the ChipTorque solution.
I'll be doing something ECU related next and your experience is definitely a help.

Keep it up! :beer:

Also loving the red/black combo. Here's my car (looks the same):
Image
(Credit goes to Simon Corston, it looks better in the photo then in person haha)


Thank you. What a nice car you have. And yes, our cars look almost the same now. haha... except my top actually is twilight blue, not black. (looks like one in photo)
Always wanted black, but could never find one at the time in Brisbane.
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby hks_kansei » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:25 am

tomli123001 wrote:I did a calculation actually. 1" = 25.4mm
Factory diameter with factory 205/40/R17 tyre is = 205mm*40%*2 + 17*25.4mm = 595.8mm

with 15" rim and most popular 195/50/R15 or 205/50/R15 will give below diameters:
195/50/R15 = 195mm*50%*2 + 15*25.4mm = 576mm
205/50/R15 = 205mm*50%*2 + 15*25.4mm = 586mm

That is still 20mm and 10mm difference from y current set up.
With 10mm wheel gap, I can stick my finger in between, whereas now, I can not. so the difference is obvious.


The speedo difference will be a percentage of the size difference.

so:

with 195/50/15 it will read 3.32% Over
With 205/50/15 it will read 1.65% Over

(over meaning at 100kph indicated, it will actually be doing 98.35kmh with a 205/50/15, assuming that the speedo is currently spot on)
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Re: TICO the SE

Postby Lokiel » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:53 am

tomli123001 wrote::
I got my heart set on a GT2560R already, which is equally small, but far more efficient and faster spooling I heard.
:


No, the smaller GT2554R is similar to the stock IHI turbocharger in spooling, the GT2560R will spool slower but produce more power.

See http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4536&parentid=0&stocknumber=22-16150%20%20BLK%20GAUGE
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Familia GTR Same BP1.8 engine?

Postby tomli123001 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:29 am

MAZDA Familia GTR, 4WD.

Saw this today. It is really hot and rare (only one on carsales.)
Thinking of using it as daily, as my Merc is wife's car.

Do you guys know if it shares same engine and many other things as our MX5? It is a 1.8 and 4WD with viscous LSD

Image
Image

My bird loved this car also too, this was her reaction when I showed Tico the enlarge photo on laptop.
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NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby Okibi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:17 pm

They're good little cars, could easily fly under the Police radar (unlike Evos / WRXs) but that one's very "look at me" so you might get some hassle. Just need to respect the gear box, I suspect they're getting harder to find these days.

A few mates had the white ones like this
Image
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.

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Re: TICO the SE

Postby tomli123001 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:28 pm

Have to give the GTR a miss for now. I think it will cost too much trouble having it engineered for QLD again.
In the spirit of Xmas, I got the following coming up as my supporting mods, before I go onto the engine build and turbo upgrade.

A hardtop spoiler, wiper cowl cover (will have to drill a hole to accommodate the new washer bottl there later.), Autometer boost gauge, AFR gauge/sensor, and Innovate dual function oil pressure and temperature gauge. A I L Motor sports sensor holder, which will go into the 1 din space above a newer head unit.

Finally getting the braided clutch line, brake lines and new DBA rotors. I will stay with my pads for now, as they are good and it is consumable items.
I did buy the Mania Sparco Sprint V seat protectors. But still could not decide if I am to sell my leather seats for the Sparcos. I did list the leather seats as EOI for offers, so far no takers or much interest at all.

Some parts on the floor here
Image

The cool innovate dual function gauge, this case oil temp and pressure
Image
Image

These are the seats I want to sell. Located in Brisbane. offers or some advice for how much I should ask for, will be good. (Somebody suggested $1000, but maybe too high.)
Some photos here for the reference. Also if you think the stock leather seats are better than Space Sprint V, please let me know your opinions also.
Image
Image
NA6-Rolled off Mt Nebo
NB SE-Sold for investment property deposit, then crashed by the buyer months later
Now Black NB SP #31.


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