Question of building up my engine.

[Mr Morlock]

the Insurance co has the power - they have the deep pockets / they have the lawyers and if you do not advise of mods which you are bound to do they can and do refuse claims. All the nice words mean nothing that is just legalise and the lawyers prove black is white on a daily basis. Anyone thinking that they do not need to tell an insurance co that they have fitted a turbo need their heads read and quite clearly an insurance co can say that they were not given the opportunity of declining to cover the vehicle or vary the premium. On an MX5 I was refused a quote merely because the car had a sports exhaust. I reckon you check before doing the work.

[Lokiel]

^
I'm seriously considering switching to 3rd party insurance only for my car because of all this crap. I'm with Just Car insurance and have reported "most" of my modz so am probably in a very "grey area".

[MattR]

^
I'm seriously considering switching to 3rd party insurance only for my car because of all this crap. I'm with Just Car insurance and have reported "most" of my modz so am probably in a very "grey area".

Why? There are plenty of companies that will take on modified cars.

You have the usual suspects, Shannons, VGL, Ryno, Just Cars and there is a new one that has started up recently which is advertising in Australian Classic Car, I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Also some of the big players have classic/modified insurance sections such as NRMA.

Personally I am with Shannons and am happy with the premiums and service for three cars at the moment, two on laid up cover and the MX. I just go through the list of mods with them, they say fine it's all noted and covered and we agree on a value. As I also have my house and contents with them any spares that wouldn't be covered under the car policy are covered under the house and contents up to $10k. So all the other wheels and tyres, spare motors, gearboxes and so on for the race cars and spares for the charger are covered.

As an example of how happy with mods Shannons are, my old 240Z had three pages worth of modifications listed on the policy for everything from the paint job and stickers to the three sets of wheels and the type of computer I was using. Admittedly the car was on laid up cover, but I got replacement of like for like as it was on the policy.

My old ZG Fairlane was similar. I listed the fact I had electric windows as I retro fitted them, took six months to find the genuine parts to do the swap, no problems, now covered for them to find replacements if needed. As they did when I got rear ended and they sourced a new set of tail lights and the centre garnish which was rarer than rocking horse poop. I was told not to use my spares and that they would find replacements as that was their job.

Of all the insurance companies I have had to deal with in making claims, so far all bar one have been not at fault, the specialists, Shannons and VGL, have been the easiest to deal with in getting repairs done to a good standard and not worried about using the cheapest quote.

[hks_kansei]

Pretty sure while Shannons are happy to cover any mods, the contract does specify LEGAL modifications (Assuming road cover here, laid up would have different rules)

They have to have some protection there, otherwise they'd have kids ringing and saying "Can you insure my commodore? It's got chopped springs a welded diff and a VL Turbo engine swap, but the mounts wouldn't line up so I just used an old extension cord"


Without having somebody inspect every car before approving cover, it's much easier to just say "legal" because then there's at least a baseline of safety/quality there (even if the baseline is a bit high in my opinion on some of the non-safety areas)

[OurCognitiveSurplus]

Who cares about legality? If you have a prang and its not declared on your policy then no payout and then there is the other car. If you have any property someone can go for that as well. If you are responsible person you do care.

That's not true and is a common misconception. The insurance company can't just deny a claim because your car is illegally modified. They have to PROVE that the accident was caused by, or attributed to by your illegal modification. As a basic example, if you run into the back of somebody, they are not going to be able to deny the claim due to you having darker than legal tint on your side windows.

Similarly, they cannot deny a claim because the police breath tested you on site and you blew over the limit, they would have to prove that being over the limit caused or contributed to the accident. You would be surprised how difficult it is to prove these things.

I appreciate that you're making this claim bassed on personal experiance, but can you provide a source document?

[hks_kansei]

^^

When taking up insurance you enter a contract, when you sign the papers and make payment you've agreed to the terms of that contract.
One of the terms of that contract is having a legallly maintained, and modified, car.
If you haven't held up your end of that contract then they aren't required to hold up theirs.

[Mr nanotech]

FFS can we get this back on topic. We have plenty of threads that have turned into mods vs insurance, we do NOT NEED ANOTHER.

If you feel inclined to comment on insurance, put a link to one of the other 40 threads like this on cartalk. Flogging this dead horse is as bad as users not searching before making a new thread on something that has been covered.
Mods clean this sh!t up, it's your ONE job so do it properly.


Back on topic (assuming the OP is even reading this anymore); does the op have any remaining questions regarding this initial question? Something I noticed everyone has glossed over is the turbo with itb idea the op mentioned somewhere along the line. The short answer is don't bother, it's overly complicated and you don't see the best of both worlds at all.
To be honest there is this huge misconception that ITB's mean power. I guess because they look racey people automatically assume they add something significant to the car. The truth is that they are more of a supporting modification you would use to get more out of your already build normally aspirated motor and there is certainly more to them then plug and play (velocity stack length etc).
Building a big normally aspirated engine requires a lot of time and money, often much more than turbo. The reason I mentioned you have to work out what you want out of the car, is because there is a huge different in driving feel and power delivery between n/a and turbo. Significantly. A lot of this will come down to how you personally drive the car, how much you rev it out, where you drive the car, and what you plan on doing with it. Take note of what point in the rev range you sit when you are having fun, when you are spirited driving where do you feel the car is lacking? Those are the things you have to factor in and work out.
Then you have to remember that the car could be off the road some time too. It's not a simple matter of driving to a shop and getting them to put on parts. I you go with normal aspiration, you are going to want to send the head off for work which might take a while before you get it back, and that's probably the fastest piece you'll get back.
With turbo there are a lot of non turbo related mods you will have to do for longevity too. Remember you may have to upgrade your brakes, diff, clutch, and cooling system to cope with the additional power. How is your engines current compression?
I'm sorry if I'm sounding like I am trying to talk you out of building your engine. I'm showing you the realistic side of it. There is a lot you need to consider and think about.

Feel free ask anything in this thread, we have a lot of people commenting already with a bulk of knowledge regarding anything you are concerned with (assuming they are done talking about insurance..). There are no silly questions so don't be afraid of asking something you might feel embarrassed about, this is a forum and this is what it's for.

[M1474]

Seriously Tesco,

Come along to one if the club autotests or sprints (link posted earlier) and you will see the classes that are run and there will be between 30 and 50 mx5s from daily drivers to full on turbo and V8 race cars for you to see in action. It's free to come along and look and this weeks entry is only $30. (To late to register now though).

All friendly guys and girls who will be more than happy to tell you all about their cars.

The racing in the Unmodified classes is close and competitive and before you make up your mind that you need to modify the car to take it to the track, TAKE IT TO THE TRACK and see!

[tescoking]

feel kinda embrassing to bring my little car in to meet you guys, I wanna build it first and join you guys when I have the confidence.

[M1474]

Half the cars that race are almost completely stock, and that's the great thing about class racing, you are in with other cars at the same level.

The last thing you want is to turn up to your first race with a car that puts you in a class with the pros.

Have a look on mx5club.com.au in the coming events section for licence details etc.

You won't regret it.

[kenson]

Seanan is spot on. I've been to 3 events with a relatively stock car and in no way am I close to using the car to its full potential.
I was very keen on throwing money at the car but now I know I don't need to. Though it's still tempting... Last thing I want is to go up a class like Seanan said.

Come have a go first! I should've done it 6 years ago when I got my first MX5.

[tescoking]

FFS can we get this back on topic. We have plenty of threads that have turned into mods vs insurance, we do NOT NEED ANOTHER.

If you feel inclined to comment on insurance, put a link to one of the other 40 threads like this on cartalk. Flogging this dead horse is as bad as users not searching before making a new thread on something that has been covered.
Mods clean this sh!t up, it's your ONE job so do it properly.


Back on topic (assuming the OP is even reading this anymore); does the op have any remaining questions regarding this initial question? Something I noticed everyone has glossed over is the turbo with itb idea the op mentioned somewhere along the line. The short answer is don't bother, it's overly complicated and you don't see the best of both worlds at all.
To be honest there is this huge misconception that ITB's mean power. I guess because they look racey people automatically assume they add something significant to the car. The truth is that they are more of a supporting modification you would use to get more out of your already build normally aspirated motor and there is certainly more to them then plug and play (velocity stack length etc).
Building a big normally aspirated engine requires a lot of time and money, often much more than turbo. The reason I mentioned you have to work out what you want out of the car, is because there is a huge different in driving feel and power delivery between n/a and turbo. Significantly. A lot of this will come down to how you personally drive the car, how much you rev it out, where you drive the car, and what you plan on doing with it. Take note of what point in the rev range you sit when you are having fun, when you are spirited driving where do you feel the car is lacking? Those are the things you have to factor in and work out.
Then you have to remember that the car could be off the road some time too. It's not a simple matter of driving to a shop and getting them to put on parts. I you go with normal aspiration, you are going to want to send the head off for work which might take a while before you get it back, and that's probably the fastest piece you'll get back.
With turbo there are a lot of non turbo related mods you will have to do for longevity too. Remember you may have to upgrade your brakes, diff, clutch, and cooling system to cope with the additional power. How is your engines current compression?
I'm sorry if I'm sounding like I am trying to talk you out of building your engine. I'm showing you the realistic side of it. There is a lot you need to consider and think about.

Feel free ask anything in this thread, we have a lot of people commenting already with a bulk of knowledge regarding anything you are concerned with (assuming they are done talking about insurance..). There are no silly questions so don't be afraid of asking something you might feel embarrassed about, this is a forum and this is what it's for.

I would love to ask and I did, but seems like people are not really happy with my question, they would basicly ask me to do some research before posting this post.
I am not a newbie on this forum, I knew the rules, but if you could simply read my English then you would know I am not a English speaker, so is not that I am being lazy or don't want to search. Is just because I can't read that much English and some word is not even have a direct translate in my language. Thats why I asked. Also I think everyone have a different situation, in my case I am just trying to figrue it out what route should I go before I am half way between. I am trying to be careful before making any mistake or wasting time and money, so I asked. But obviously I don't get much useful reply instead of someone blame me or talking about something else. But I do really really thanks for your reply, it is really helpful to me.

[Magpie]

I say go the natural aspirated build. My only other advice is set a realistic budget as when you are talking to people and your budget is too low you will not be taken seriously.

I can't wait to drive my build'

Again good luck!

[Johnnytheknife]

To give you some idea, I have an NA8 (a Eunos R Limited) which I bought from another club member here in Perth (he did the build, not me). The R Limited came with different cams from the factory, and mine still has them along with:

Extractors
Pod filter
Full aftermarket exhaust
Coil over plug system
Engine management modifications
Aftermarket rear suspension (although one shock is leaking, which I need to get sorted)
LSD (factory)
Upgraded clutch

I don't have any dyno numbers for it, but it is pretty quick for a 1.8L naturally aspirated motor. On street tyres (KU31s) the car is in class B for the MX5 club events. I raced the Barbagello sprint and the most recent auto-test, and got throughly beaten on both occasions. My car is by no means the slowest there, the limiting factor is the meat in the drivers seat.

If I was going to start with a stock car I would do two things:

1. Get a couple of seasons of racing under my belt, build skills
2. Turbo and R spec rubber. There is a lot of support in Perth and nationally for turbo charging MX-5s, you get a lot of power and good reliability (with a sensible setup).

Basically, until you are getting close to the limits of what your current car can do, then upgrade power and everything else to support it.

[M1474]

If I was going to start with a stock car I would do two things:
1. R spec rubber.
2. Get a couple of seasons of racing under my belt, build skills
3. Turbo. There is a lot of support in Perth and nationally for turbo charging MX-5s, you get a lot of power and good reliability (with a sensible setup).

Basically, until you are getting close to the limits of what your current car can do, then upgrade power and everything else to support it.

There, fixed.