Gears: First to second sucks

22Silver · Postby **22Silver** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:09 pm

My first gear into second gear shifts are giving me grief.

If I try and change at relatively low revs, it often just goes grrrrchckkkkksgrrr and slips back into neutral.
Every now and then it doesn't even do that, it just pops out into neutral quietly.
When I put it in gear successfully, it feels like I need to pull it past where it sits naturally in second, and then it clicks into gear, if I put it where 2nd is, it hasn't moved far enough. If I push past 2nd, it will click into gear, and the stick with then pull back to where 2nd naturally sits.

I have just replaced the clutch with an Excedy, filled the gearbox up with redline synthetic oil, replaced a squeaky spigot bearing, and all the shifter boots.
There seems to be a little more play in the shaft, even when in gear, it has a bit of room to move... I can also gently lift the stick up nearly 8mm, and it seems to lift up a little when I change gears and drop back down when the gear successfully grabs.

I'm at a complete loss as to what could be causing this!

OurCognitiveSurplus · Postby **OurCognitiveSurplus** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:21 pm

That does sound worse than the usual first-second shift problems.

Did you have a look at the turret and shift boots when you did the oil?

Old Dude · Postby **Old Dude** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:27 pm

I don't like the sound of being able to move it up 8mm :shock:

mines an NB8B and it wont lift up at all.

It sounds like something is a miss

Cheers
Dale

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:32 pm

22Silver wrote:There seems to be a little more play in the shaft, even when in gear, it has a bit of room to move... I can also gently lift the stick up nearly 8mm, and it seems to lift up a little when I change gears and drop back down when the gear successfully grabs.

A little play is normal, but it shouldn't be huge.

The odd part is the 8mm lift, it should be pretty solid for up/down movement.

It's been ages since I've seen an MX5 shifter pulled apart, but from memory there's a metal collar that goes over the bal section that should keep it down in the gearbox, then the lower boot goes over, then the upper.

If that collar thing is missing, or loose, it might be letting the stick shift upwards, which may cause the lower bushing to lift partly out of the selector, which may be meaning it's not able to move the selector fully (ie: when the top of the stick is at 2nd gear, the bottom may be sitting not quite in gear, causing crunches)

Other than that I'd suggest looking at the nylon lower bush, but I doubt that's causing the issue.

Is it just first and second? or also 5th and reverse?

22Silver · Postby **22Silver** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:16 pm

Let me just check that 5'th and reverse thing, then I'll look for the metal collar thing you're talking about.

The dust boot and the bigger rubber boot are brand new OEM, put on like 2 weeks ago.

I don't remember seeing any metal collars.. only a plastic/nylon ring that the ball sat in.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:42 pm

I think hks-kansei is right and there's something wrong with the way the gear lever is mounted in its socket.

Here's the pic from the parts catalogue

17-482 is a thin "Wave washer" which helps to hold the lever down in the socket. Is that in place?
17-475 is the boot and gasket. NB8A 5-speed and 6-speed part numbers are quite different for this item.
17-462, the cup, is a very firm push to fit completely over the small ball at the bottom of the lever.

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Hmm, I seem to recall something between 17-475 and 17-470?

Although, the one I last looked at in detail was when a short shifter was being removed, so maybe the extra part was part of the short shifter.

Manga, do you remember if 17/475 has anything under the rubber to keep the shifter in place? or does it just rely on the tension of the rubber?

22silver, you don't have a short shifter do you?

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:51 pm

The NB8A box is different. Some NA boxes have an extra adjusting shim above the wave washer.

edit: just re-checked. Some NA8 boxes have the adjusting shim. The NA6 box has a couple of shims and a cup on top of the larger ball.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:54 pm

The pin may have sheared or been knocked out.

The one that located in the slot on the ball part of the shifter.

Dann

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:57 pm

NB8As has two pins, front and back, with two slots in the lever. They're both shrunk fit in place and almost impossible to move. The turret, including those 2 pins, is the main mod from NA8 to NB8A and is the main thing that makes the NB8A a tougher box.

22Silver · Postby **22Silver** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Just replaced the boots, and quite a few of those parts weren't present.
474 501 and 482 I believe.

I'm surprised it even works at all!!!

It doesn't surprise me.. Very clear someone has been in there, as most guides I saw to replacing the boots mentioned carpety sound deadener which wasn't present either.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:35 pm

I don't think 501 does anything very useful, it's listed as an "insulator". 482 is probably the key to your problems. Did your change turret have 2 locating pins, back and front?

JBT · Postby **JBT** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:43 pm

501 is a bit like a paper towel/toilet roll inner and stops the upper rubber boot from flexing at the base and making popping noises on gear changes, particularly 3-4. The one on my NA8 was shredded, so I made one out of a toilet roll inner wrapped with race tape - it worked.

speed freak · Postby **speed freak** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:45 pm

22Silver wrote:Just replaced the boots, and quite a few of those parts weren't present.
474 501 and 482 I believe.

I'm surprised it even works at all!!!

It doesn't surprise me.. Very clear someone has been in there, as most guides I saw to replacing the boots mentioned carpety sound deadener which wasn't present either.

I don't recall either of those parts on my nb8b either when I changed my shift boots. From memory I did this... unscrew gear knob, remove center console, take out carpet sound dedener, remove 3 bolts for the big shift boot, remove 3 bolts for the small shift boot, then remove the shifter from the gearbox. I don't even recall seeing any pin type things in the slot on the ball part of the shifter mind you I didn't look for any either and all parts that were removed went back in but obviously replacing the old rubber shift boots with the new oem ones.

If that plastic/nylon washer thing is missing or broken that could be causing excess movement especially the up and down movement, that shouldn't happen in any car. Should be a little play side to side but not too much.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:47 pm

JBT wrote:501 is a bit like a paper towel/toilet roll inner and stops the upper rubber boot from flexing at the base and making popping noises on gear changes, particularly 3-4. The one on my NA8 was shredded, so I made one out of a toilet roll inner wrapped with race tape - it worked.

That's because race tape fixes everything.