Hub Stands

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:33 am

How many people on here use hub stands? I'm discussing the possibilty of having some hub stands manufactured however getting them designed, built, certified and NDT done on the welds is not cheap. There is a possibility that a non certified design can be made but it would require users to probably use car stands as well just in case of failure. The car stands would not need to provide actual support rather used as a safety factor. The design would also incorporate a -3.0 deg on the vertical to compensate for camber, they are intended for corner weighting and not alignment hence a non pivoting vertical support. If interested make a post and when the design is finalised I will get a price and post the design and price up.

and1 · Postby **and1** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:45 pm

FM have already designed a setup. Not sure how suitable it would be for your purposes.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=5681&parentid=0&stocknumber=35-70050%20%204%20LUG%2012MM

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=5681&parentid=0&stocknumber=35-70090%20%204%20LUG%2012MM

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:53 pm

and1 wrote:FM have already designed a setup. Not sure how suitable it would be for your purposes.

Yep seen them, however the cost of freight is a killer, however there is a container coming from that states that could be used if there is no interest in having them made here. However I may just have them made locally anyway.

There are also these available http://www.bbxracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=69 but again it is a weight/shipping issue.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:15 pm

Those FM ones look good for the home workshop, and $350 not too bad for the pair.

Magpie, where are you at with yours? Timing? Cost?

On re-reading your original post, yours are not versatile enough ... if all you want is a prop for corner weighting, you could knock something up for next to nothing, and use the axle stands for safety. I would not pay for a well engineered all singing all dancing prop, but then I am pretty cheap ... :wink:

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:29 pm

greenMachine wrote:if all you want is a prop for corner weighting, you could knock something up for next to nothing, and use the axle stands for safety.

Could probably just put the stands under the knuckles for that.

Hell, even a set of cheap bent steel wheels with the top half cut off with a grinder (to give access to the shock for adjustment)

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:51 pm

hks_kansei wrote:Could probably just put the stands under the knuckles for that.
Hell, even a set of cheap bent steel wheels with the top half cut off with a grinder (to give access to the shock for adjustment)

Thanks, I will consider those options. MKII of the design is like the FM ones and I'm getting a structrual engineer at work to give his thoughts. Once I get some firm prices I will make another post. At the moment I have $213 (+gst) for 4 sets SUPPLY only (Design MKi attached) out of 8mm and 10mm plate.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:07 am

Well a new design has been done, much more usefull than the first as it will allow camber. I will send out for pricing to be cut from 6mm plate, however I'm more than happy to provide the DWG file to people if they want to have them made locally. Note the uploaded drawings have another PCD of 5 x 100 however this has since been removed. Also if you print out the large drawings on A3 they will be at 1:1 scale.

plohl · Postby **plohl** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:45 am

If you want it in 3d with dxf's and stuff, let me know.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:13 am

Now, will that also allow toe to be set? The FM ones allow that, but you may have to modify the design to ensure the base is sufficiently long (for accuracy), and the structure is sufficiently rigid (distortion-proof). The FM design has a lot of drilling, folding, cutting, and seems to have a lot of potential for dimensional inaccuracy built into the design. If you can widen the bottom half, fold/machine a shelf (to sit a straight edge), I reckon you have the makings of a very useful device - better than the FM one.

Camber and toe would be my minimum requirement, if you can do that I am interested.

People who would want a pair (or more) of these are obviously the home workshop - especially the racers - and the professional workshops: have you spoken to any of the board's sponsors, either as purchasers or distributors?

:mrgreen:

PS Move the stop to allow more than 3 degrees neg (?), better still make it an adjustable stop to allow people to use it to repeat settings.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:03 pm

Thanks for the feedback

The stops on the design allow for up to +6 to -6 so this should cover most circumstances. I will note your adjustable stop idea and see if it can be incorporated. On the toe, it should be possible to bolt a straight edge near the bottom of the upright and could have some holes cut to allow a straight edge to be bolted on. So camber and toe are possible with this design.

As the design has not been certified I would not want to do this as a commercial venture. I'm happy to provide the DWG file if somebody wants to run with it as a commercial venture (I would just ask for a free set and any future updates as commission).

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:57 pm

Magpie wrote:The stops on the design allow for up to +6 to -6 so this should cover most circumstances.

Excellent

I will note your adjustable stop idea and see if it can be incorporated.

This something that anyone could do with a drill and a bit of angle, so no biggie.

On the toe, it should be possible to bolt a straight edge near the bottom of the upright and could have some holes cut to allow a straight edge to be bolted on. So camber and toe are possible with this design.

Not reliably. The width of the arm is too small at the bottom - ideally just carry the width all the way down. The end could be bent 90 degrees to carry the straight edge (this would add some strength, at least to that end, to prevent twisting); alternatively, just carry it down, and drill two holes at the bottom where anyone could just bolt up a bit of angle. As a cost tradeoff, I would rather the latter with a heavier gauge metal than the bent one with a smaller gauge - more robust, less likely to get bent/twisted (this is important for toe particularly).

As the design has not been certified I would not want to do this as a commercial venture. I'm happy to provide the DWG file if somebody wants to run with it as a commercial venture (I would just ask for a free set and any future updates as commission).

OK.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:16 pm

At the moment the design is to be all cut from 6mm plate so this should be robust enough, however I will get the area at the bottom wider. However at present the holes at the top are 1mm oversize so there is a bit of play hopefully not enough to discourage use to set toe.

Apu · Postby **Apu** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:33 pm

This is probably a dumb question but...these would make corner weighting a car much easier wouldn't it?

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:44 pm

Apu wrote:This is probably a dumb question but...these would make corner weighting a car much easier wouldn't it?

That is the whole purpose why I'm looking at hub stands. These allow you to adjust the suspension and see the results live and not have to take wheels on and off. I reckon with hub stands I can corner weight my car and take the preload out of the sway bars in about 2 hours (excluding setting up the scales).