Whats happening to the MX5 racing??

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Two point five litre.

Dann

Postby **Boyracer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:54 pm

Zossy you really need to go to a race meeting and see what's happening, you certainly don't need to have a NC to be competitive.

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:20 pm

NitroDann wrote:Two point five litre.

Dann

Yep, 2B compliant.

Boyracer wrote:Zossy you really need to go to a race meeting and see what's happening, you certainly don't need to have a NC to be competitive.

Lou, competitive with what? That's the question I'm asking.

I want to build a race car that gives me a chance to win against all comers in my class. Given the rules in FOSC and even MSC, I do not feel confident starting an NA race car build as I could spend $15K on a hot engine, running gear and suspension (not to mention the cost of cage, etc) only to find myself matched with an NC with similar investment. Pound for pound, surely the NC is a quicker car.

david_syd_au · Postby **david_syd_au** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:30 pm

zossy1 wrote:I want to build a race car that gives me a chance to win against all comers in my class. Given the rules in FOSC and even MSC, I do not feel confident starting an NA race car build as I could spend $15K on a hot engine, running gear and suspension (not to mention the cost of cage, etc) only to find myself matched with an NC with similar investment. Pound for pound, surely the NC is a quicker car.

When you say similar investment do you mean

A. The total cost is the same
ie
4k NA + 15k improvements totals 19k
v's
18k NC + 1k improvements = 19k

or
B. A NA and a NC both with 15k of improvements?

I would argue that in case A, the NA would be quicker
while in case B. the NC would win.

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:51 pm

No, no.

What I'm saying is, if you spend the same amount of money, time and development on an NC and an NA/NB, the NC will be quicker. Yes, the NC will be more expensive due to the higher cost of initial purchase (which is also the point I'm making - it makes it more costly to compete with an NC, or nearly impossible if the guy running the NC has very deep pockets and can steer OK).

If I am going to build a racecar, why wouldn't I build an NC (apart from the extra cost of the initial purchase)? If I want to avoid the disappointment of sinking $$$ into a car only to be beaten by a faster car that i'll never be able to catch, why would I do that to myself?

And more fundamentally, why would I build an MX5 racecar when there is no real guarantee that the class or series I am building to will allow me to be competitive in that car next year? That is assuming that the series in question will even run next year, or the year after?

I have joined the MX5 Challenge FB page - would be interested to see what is being proposed as that is the sort of thing that interests me. But again, if we're running to CAMS 2F/2B regs, i'd be looking to build a NC in order to future-proof the investment...

OR go race historics. But they are slower AND more expensive, and they break all the time. Help!!

Postby **Boyracer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:04 pm

Like I said Chris you need to get out there and have a look, the Gold Mania NB is quicker than the 2.5 NC, a 2l NC has not even come close.... If I spent a fortune on Michelin slicks for my NA race car it would also be doing times close to the 2.5 NC... And I know it cost a lot less to build.

mazmad · Postby **mazmad** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:14 pm

I thought the Gold Mania car was turbo?
The new breed of nc's being built are all bar one 2.5litres so different class to a built nb. And a week ago an nb was giving one of the recently built 2.5Ls a real hurry up, leading for part of the race in fact.

So yeah...as per Lou...buy a built nb and spend the money you save on some shmick tyres.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:14 pm

I've watched the gold car run 6s IRL. Maybe it was 7s... but either way it was way faster than most turbo NAs ever run.

Dann

mazmad · Postby **mazmad** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:19 pm

Where Dann? IRL ?

Mx5 trophy race a week ago, Daniel on slicks 1.069 in a 2.5L nc. Luke on semis 1.085 in an nb

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:26 pm

mazmad wrote:I thought the Gold Mania car was turbo?
The new breed of nc's being built are all bar one 2.5litres so different class to a built nb. And a week ago an nb was giving one of the recently built 2.5Ls a real hurry up, leading for part of the race in fact.

So yeah...as per Lou...buy a built nb and spend the money you save on some shmick tyres.

Goldie is turbo but I think they are in the same class due to the 2.5L in the NC? Not sure about that - again, the rules are clear as mud.

Others have different opinions and I have heard both. The Mania car has years and years of development and it ain't getting faster. The NCs are and they are already matching or beating the turbo NBs (including Goldie) and have more to come. They are also more consistent through full race distance (esp. an enduro), cheaper to run, easier on brakes and tyres, etc.

I'm sorry Lou but i'll have to disagree with you on this one. The NC, given the same prep and with an equal driver, has got to be a quicker car. But you're welcome to your opinion, and I respect it as you have been racing for ages.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:27 pm

At the mx5 challenge at wakefield, when we met.

And the mania gold car is DEFINATELY n/a.... right?

Dann

ja9 · Postby **ja9** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:32 pm

Gold car is definately naturally aspirated, black car is turbo.

Postby **Boyracer** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:47 pm

Stating facts NC, 2 l or 2.5 has not gone faster than goldie( NB ) or even the time Brian was doing in Fanta( NA) and I reckon there has been a lot more time , money and development put in to the NC than there ever was in either the NB or NA.

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:10 pm

<facepalm>

I was told Goldie was turbo. Apparently that is wrong.

God's potatoes. I don't even know why I am arguing this point because honestly I don't give a crap about 2B racing. I would rather race 2F rules and neither Goldie nor the 2.5L NCs are relevant to that conversation. A 2L NC is relevant to that conversation, as is the Exige, etc. as all these cars are eligible in 2F under CAMS rules and class C under MSC/AASA.

So getting back to my original point, what would be wrong with a series dedicated to 2F style rules for NA/NB only?