Whats happening to the MX5 racing??

[zossy1]

If I am putting money into a race car (registered/road, or dedicated track car), I want to know where to spend my money to best effect/performance, and that when I have spent it I want to know that the performance I have bought will last me longer that the race meeting on xxx date, or even a season. Good ideas are all very well, but we (or at least I) need a certain level of stability and predictability.

Yep, we're on the same page here.

2F and 2B are good concepts, but do not account for new car development (eg. I still can't hope to compete with a well prepped and dríven Exige, or even an NC if I am driving an NA/NB).

Here is what I'm thinking:

Apply 2B / 2F rules.

Run supp regs as follows (example for 2F - might do something similar for 2B?):

2F Spec MX5 Class:
Only MX5s permitted in class
Minimum car and driver weight for NA6 at end of race, 1050kg
NA8 1100kg (or so? May need more/less for parity)
NB8A/C 1120kg or so
NB8B 1140kg or so
NC - not sure but would probably require significant ballast... Spec Miata does not allow NC yet I think.

Tyres - controlled semi slicks - say Star Specs or Advans?
Wheels - limited to 17x7.
No non-standard bodywork / aero permitted.
Any NA/NB gearbox or diff ratio offered by the factory permitted for use in any NA/NB car.

Not sure if intake restrictors would be necessary for the bigger engines, it may be that ballast could bring parity but that may require some testing, or just borrow the Spec Miata rules as a starting point (though their engine/intake mods are somewhat different to 2F).

I could swallow this... And I think most existing race cars out there could fairly easily meet these criteria? Would make for close racing!

If guys want to build something bigger/faster, they can go run prodsports or something... And I wouldn't care if we were on the track with other classes/cars, as long as I was racing guys in similar machinery.

[Cal]

I'm not really seeing a problem. This weekend Prod Sports Qld is running a 1hr race at Morgan Park. Entries are: 16 Mazda MX5's, 2 Porsches, a BMW and a Nissan 350Z.

[mazmad]

But it is so different in NSW. PRod Sports round here at SMP on the GP circuit this weekend, one mx5 entrant, who didn't appear on Sunday. Why is the situation different in QLD? I am tempted to do a few rounds next year but would be more fun running with other mx5s.

.........................

So greenie zossy what are you guys after exactly? A well defined rule book, and a chance of a win if you play by the rules? I don't understand what you are looking for.

[Cal]

The situation is different in Qld because we are plebs and can't afford to race Lotus's & Porsche's.

[greenMachine]

If I am putting money into a race car (registered/road, or dedicated track car), I want to know where to spend my money to best effect/performance, and that when I have spent it I want to know that the performance I have bought will last me longer that the race meeting on xxx date, or even a season. Good ideas are all very well, but we (or at least I) need a certain level of stability and predictability.

Apply 2B / 2F rules.

Run supp regs as follows (example for 2F - might do something similar for 2B?):

2F Spec MX5 Class:
Only MX5s permitted in class
Minimum car and driver weight for NA6 at end of race, 1050kg
NA8 1100kg (or so? May need more/less for parity)
NB8A/C 1120kg or so
NB8B 1140kg or so
NC - not sure but would probably require significant ballast... Spec Miata does not allow NC yet I think.

Tyres - controlled semi slicks - say Star Specs or Advans?
Wheels - limited to 17x7.
No non-standard bodywork / aero permitted.
Any NA/NB gearbox or diff ratio offered by the factory permitted for use in any NA/NB car.

I like.

I would limit wheels to 15x7 - cheaper wheels, cheaper rubber, and still allows for big(ger) brakes.

I believe that the rules need to accommodate other categories, so I can run in supersprints, or prod sports, or whatever, and others running elsewhere can come and play with minimal mods/expense. It also provides a better market for buying/selling cars. That means, essentially, it needs to be based on one/more of the established CAMS class structures.




On preview:

Cal, that is great! What are you guys doing, and can we have some of it? What is the local state of prod sports in NSW/Vic? I did see some negative chatter a while back about Corvettes and Porkers and big budget cars ... but I need to suss this out as part of my homework for 2014.

MM, I am not particularly looking for a new rulebook - just participating in this discussion with my 2c, and what I am looking for in planning for next year. If MX5 Challenge is in hibernation (pity, it meets most, perhaps all, of my criteria) then I will look to MSC, perhaps prodsports, and if nothing eventuates then I will look to do a round or two of MRA/FOSC to supplement another supersprint campaign. Maybe ... 2014 is still a way off, and who knows what will come out of the woodwork before then .

[mazmad]

The situation is different in Qld because we are plebs and can't afford to race Lotus's & Porsche's.

So what does a round cost you?

edit.... because, having looked into it with an eye on next year,. here's what a round here costs:
Joining fee for Prod Sports NSW $200
Entry fee for a round $380 (less if an ARDC member)
Garage $290 !!! or $110 for a carport.

Plus the Cams licencing costs (an additional $170 over AASA)

[Cal]

The situation is different in Qld because we are plebs and can't afford to race Lotus's & Porsche's.

So what does a round cost you?

edit.... because, having looked into it with an eye on next year,. here's what a round here costs:
Joining fee for Prod Sports NSW $200 $50
Entry fee for a round $380 (less if an ARDC member) from $200 & $300.
Garage $290 !!! or $110 for a carport. Most of our guys use 6x3 shade ports

Plus the Cams licencing costs (an additional $170 over AASA)Same

[evil_weevil]

greenmachine and zossy,

we have a similar discussion going on with the MX5 challenge facebook group about a 2014 calendar + some minor rules to get something going

we have talked about the 2B, 2F and clubman classes but also a time based class like MSC/300 races

I've been away for a week so I hjave plenty to catch up on!

[Cal]

Honestly, I think the best place for you guys down there is Modern Sports Cars. There will be a calendar, don't worry about that.

[mazmad]

Which will be great, looking forward to that. But that's only 4 events, and only 2 of those in NSW.

[zossy1]

My issue with MSC is still cost to an extent, as well as certainty. Will it be around in 2-3 years?

The PWR rules for MSC are also fairly vague, but putting that aside...

If I wanted to be sure of being competitive in, say, Class C (in a legal car), it is clear that the car to have is an NC as it has a significant PWR advantage in stock form over the NA/NB, and far more development potential. You then strip it down (but not too much! Looks like 8% weight reduction from curb is all that is allowed for an NC), and work over the standard 2L without going FI or boring/stroking. Now fellas, there is $25k+, maybe $30k+ in that build!

Why can't I build a cheap and competitive race car out of the $3k NA I have sitting in my shed?

[zossy1]

..

[NitroDann]

You can are you joking?

Dann

[mazmad]

Cost of the build for MSC or the round? $390 (from memory) for 2 x 1 hours and 6 sprints, including garage, across 2 days. Pretty good value.

[zossy1]

Dann, even the best prepped NA/NB 2F race car will not be able to compete with a well prepped NC in the under 2L class, all other things being equal. The quick guys know it - that's why they have all got into NCs (those who can afford it). The story is similar in 2B I suspect - Daniel and the boys are putting down 1:06s at Wakie in their non-FI NC (2B compliant)... And that car still has potential to go faster. I have never heard of a 2B non-FI NA/NB doing those times (though I stand to be corrected).