HANS Devices Compulsory for QR & Lakeside in 2014

[JBT]

You made a statement that I refute that's all. I see far more "crashes" (the term you used) on the roads than on the track. I've had heaps more close calls caused by other traffic (including heavy vehicles) on the road and none on the track.

[Suspense]

The number of incidents on the road is no doubt higher but that's a factor of the number of participants. The proportion or likelihood of incidents at the track is much higher than on the road.

[JBT]

I disagree again. The standard of driving at track days is far better than what I observe on the road.

Example: No incidents at our club track sprint day today over a four hour period with some 42 drivers, yet I almost got creamed twice on the 30 minute drive to the facility. Once by a B double tailgating so closely that I could see my number plate in the reflection off his bumper and, while that was happening, some fool changed lanes directly in front of me without indicating, stood on the brakes and then exited onto an off ramp. I thought I was going to get squished. Fortunately, the lane beside me was clear and I could dart out of the way of the B double with smoking tyres bearing down on me. I'll take my chances on a track anytime.

I have no problem with HANS devices, harnesses etc. for the appropriate level of motorsport. However, I don't think I'm alone in the belief that requiring those items for club level events, if that should ever came to pass, will kill such activities.

[Trackphotos]

..I don't think I'm alone in the belief that requiring those items for club level events, if that should ever came to pass, will kill such activities.

I don't think anyone has argued that though, have they? I've seen discussion on whether or not they're worth having, relative danger compared to road driving, but nobody has said that if it happens it won't be a problem. I'm sure QR are well aware that if they ostracize half of their club level/time attack crowd, their '100% booked weekends' are going to disappear immediately.

[Magpie]

Another issue could be risk mitigation, duty of care and insurance costs for QR. if wanting to reduce premiums HANS devices could be a way. Further the reduced premium costs could be more than the lost business (an assumption).

As noted by others passenger laps have been reduced again be use of risk management o HANS would appear to be a natural progression. The construction industry has been evolving with respect to safety over the past 25 years. How many people here have worked on a BHP site, if you have then you will understand how serious safety is managed and cost is not an issue. If you have not then you have no understanding.

[sailaholic]

How many people here have worked on a BHP site, if you have then you will understand how serious safety is managed and cost is not an issue. If you have not then you have no understanding.

Not BHP, but I can say yes to Santos, Origin, Bechtel etc. They are all the same, so I completely know what your saying

Unfortunately my pockets are not as deep and to be quite honest I think ASPECTS of the safety stuff is getting out of hand. Too many decisions being made by an office based safety expert who dosent go to the field and actually work under the conditions they create.

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[Magpie]

Not BHP, but I can say yes to Santos, Origin, Bechtel etc. They are all the same, so I completely know what your saying

Unfortunately my pockets are not as deep and to be quite honest I think ASPECTS of the safety stuff is getting out of hand. Too many decisions being made by an office based safety expert who dosent go to the field and actually work under the conditions they create.

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I agree that it has got out of hand. It is questionable that he risk mitigation extremes/costs of Bechtel, Rio and/or BHP work in the real world. I have the best of both worlds at the moment as I'm working on a BMA/Bechtel site. My educated guess is that a PF of about 60% is about right for a major construction site these days.

Nitrodann, when you are working in your workshop how do you mitigate your risks and insurance costs? Do you do a Take5, have SOP's and MSDS's, wear all PPE, etc?

[greenMachine]

... requiring those items for club level events, if that should ever came to pass, will kill such activities.

This is not being suggested, let alone required.

Let's keep the discussion grounded in reality

[Magpie]

Reality, I do agree that increased safety measures being passed down to club would be an extreme step. However my personal insurance policies are noted that if I get hurt in motor sport I'm not covered. This is because I told them that I participated in motor sport, how many people think that they are covered but are not?

Many years ago in the defence force they refused to cover me whilst I was doing drag racing, they said it was too dangerous, yet I was trained as diver and could shoot and be shot at.

What is the motivation behind QR's decision on HANS, until this is know it is all speculation. My guess is insurance reasons.

[MrB]

The issue here revolves around the differences between the principles behind road cars and race cars and how they are designed to crash and more specifically the movement of the occupants. A standard seat with a lap sash belt is designed around energy dissipation and limited movement to dissipate the energy in a crash. A race car is designed around a safety cell with the occupants being held firmly in place and the structure absorbing or deflecting the energy of the crash I.e safety cell. The problem is your head. With a lap sash belt your whole body can move in relation to itself but with a properly adjusted harness you are held in place and your head still wants to move. The majority of either serious injuries or deaths in Motorsport are as a result of necks being snapped because the body was restrained and the head kept moving. Hans should be compulsory as soon as you put a harness and race seat in a car. Cams etc.. Should be working to bring the cost down further but really if you don't get it because you don't want to spend a few hundred dollars to keep your head attached to your neck when the time comes that you do have a crash I would suggest that it is more related to your preference to spend your money on other things such as more go fast mods rather than the indisputable evidence that these items are essential. As for it will kill the sport arguments these are rolled out every time someone suggests things like this and quite frankly these are a more essential safety item than secondary bonnet restraints, fire extinguishers etc or even leather boots.

[corners]

Mods, Could we please lock this thread?

I merely posted it as an announcement to those involved in race events at QR and Lakeside.

[deviant]

Mods, Could we please lock this thread?

I merely posted it as an announcement to those involved in race events at QR and Lakeside.

-1

This is the first circuit in the country to do this. I think this is important news that could have a far reaching impact on all club motorsport at all circuits. This may bring about big changes to circuit insurance or club insurance.

[Magpie]

This is the first circuit in the country to do this. I think this is important news that could have a far reaching impact on all club motorsport at all circuits. This may bring about big changes to circuit insurance or club insurance.

I agree with Deviant this decision may have far reaching impacts and whilst we may not be able to change the decision or the impacts we may just have to live with them. If our society was not so litigious then maybe this would not be occurring, however we are and we have to live with our decisions. But at hesame time we have to respect the decisions of those who want to minimise their risks and avoid litigation. Simply Catch 22.

[manga_blue]

The good part about this decision for all of us is that it may help drive down the price of HANS devices. Cost is the major barrier. Most of us who track regularly would be thinking about going HANS already but at the moment they are stupidly expensive for just a small amount of moulding. As this policy starts to happen here and in Europe and in the States then we should all benefit from the economies of scale.

[mazmad]

Debate on the use of these safety devices is healthy and raises awareness of the issues.

As an aside, can anyone point me to the stats of injuries from 4 wheeled motorsport? The only stats I have seen cover 2 and 4 wheel and our 2 wheel brethren are at greater risk and hence distort the stats for 4 wheelers.

I am amazed that HANS type devices haven't been made mandatory for racing. And for sprints, a number of the boys / gals are using them on their road cars here already (as noted above).

Don't be put off by the sticker prices around on them, you can do deals locally on HANS and they are also much cheaper from the likes of demon tweeks.