Mounting steering wheels.

[Pamex]

If the car came fitted with an airbag, legally you must retain it.

A harness is not legal for road use in Victoria.

I can provide you with links to the relevant legislation if required. It's all available on the net. You're going to need this:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonl ... hicles.pdf

In regards to 'it can't hurt anyone, can it?' that's your call. Just bear in mind occupant safety in a frontal impact has been designed incorporating various components in your vehicle, one of these is the airbag. Take from that what you will.

I have to say, if you're struggling to find legislation on this, you're going to struggle to install a harness correctly and do the research on that. There is a complex system of geometry that you need to follow to install a harness safely. It's not a matter of just whacking it in and hoping for the best. You also need to adjust it correctly.

IF you don't do this, then you will most probably come away from an accident a lot worse off.

You'll also need to install appropriate harness mounting points, at the correct angle tolerances.

You'll need to reinforce the mounting points.

There's a lot more to it than buying a harness off ebay and just whacking it in the car.

[deviant]

You can get a harness engineered. Nothing in the ADR specifically prevents you using a harness, in fact the test procedure for ADR approving a 4-6 point harness are clearly detailed. Harmonisation with European ECE regs means that an ECE approval is accepted as equivalent to ADR, there are plenty of ECE approved harnesses available.

[project.r.racing]

Whatever, I'll just plead ignorance and claim that the internet didn't give me the answer therefore it doesn't exist, and then just pay the fine, show them that I've put the original back on, and then go home and swap it back.

Not that simple. You will be issued a defect notice and a blue sticker attached to your windscreen. upon which to clear you will need to do a cert of roadworthiness and go to a vicroads customer service centre to have the vehicle checked and blue sticker removed.

p.s. you cannot drive the car 1mm while the blue sticker is attached.

[Pamex]

Just because it complies with ADRs doesn't mean it complies with State or Federal Road Rules and modification laws.

Harness use for the street doesn't comply with VicRoads regulations.

Stretching the memory banks, but harnesses were first called to be banned for road use a long, long time ago by emergency services. I may be wrong on this last point. The idea is that sometimes emergency services aren't on the scene of the accident first. If a harness buckle fails, and you need to cut the occupant out, people assisting may not be able to do so/not have equipment, whereas a seatbelt you can always retract a long way to free someone if the buckle has failed.

I'm still amused by 'airbags are part time padding'. Lolers.

[22Silver]

If the car came fitted with an airbag, legally you must retain it.

A harness is not legal for road use in Victoria.

I can provide you with links to the relevant legislation if required. It's all available on the net. You're going to need this:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonl ... hicles.pdf

In regards to 'it can't hurt anyone, can it?' that's your call. Just bear in mind occupant safety in a frontal impact has been designed incorporating various components in your vehicle, one of these is the airbag. Take from that what you will.

I have to say, if you're struggling to find legislation on this, you're going to struggle to install a harness correctly and do the research on that. There is a complex system of geometry that you need to follow to install a harness safely. It's not a matter of just whacking it in and hoping for the best. You also need to adjust it correctly.

IF you don't do this, then you will most probably come away from an accident a lot worse off.

You'll also need to install appropriate harness mounting points, at the correct angle tolerances.

You'll need to reinforce the mounting points.

There's a lot more to it than buying a harness off ebay and just whacking it in the car.

I have read that entire document through twice, and it says nothing at all about airbags. The closest thing in it is airbag suspension. Also, harness and seat belt show no results when searched. And if I can find a way to get this done with out slips, I'll just pay someone to do it.

[Pamex]

I meant you need that for future reference. I will find you the relevant legislation.

[Pamex]

Sorry I took a while, got held up with something.

It's actually right in the modification guide.

I can't copy and paste, so I'll summarise Section 13.4 on Steering Wheel Replacement. It specifies that vehicles post 1995 build must have a replacement steering wheel that the original manufacturer specifies as suitable. It also refers to ADR 69 which deals with frontal impact occupant protection. I don't have the Act on me. That goes in depth into crash testing and protection (I haven't read it for a while, sorry, so can't be more specific. I can't access it online without paying, but I have a copy at home so can read through tonight if needed).

The rule of thumb with modifications in Victoria, unless outlined as ok in the Modification Guide, is that if the car originally came with something, it must retain it. Yes, you can change this through engineering and approval, but it's a long and difficult process.

In regards to harness, I'll get back to that later.

[22Silver]

Sorry I took a while, got held up with something.

It's actually right in the modification guide.

I can't copy and paste, so I'll summarise Section 13.4 on Steering Wheel Replacement. It specifies that vehicles post 1995 build must have a replacement steering wheel that the original manufacturer specifies as suitable. It also refers to ADR 69 which deals with frontal impact occupant protection. I don't have the Act on me. That goes in depth into crash testing and protection (I haven't read it for a while, sorry, so can't be more specific. I can't access it online without paying, but I have a copy at home so can read through tonight if needed).

The rule of thumb with modifications in Victoria, unless outlined as ok in the Modification Guide, is that if the car originally came with something, it must retain it. Yes, you can change this through engineering and approval, but it's a long and difficult process.

In regards to harness, I'll get back to that later.

Thank you for a very helpful and insightful post, I'll be looking into the engineering and approval process as there's a few questionable things I'd like to do to my car.
I just found out I need to have a sticker on my sparco bucket seats detailing the materials and it's suitability in terms of impact protection 'in a conspicuous place', and keep a copy of a VASS certificate of approval handy. Apparantly you need a VASS inspector to watch and approve the installation procedure for each item that is not explicetly allowed in the mod guide! I guess I'll set it all up over time, rip it off and go back to stock, take my car to my uncles garage, and pay (probably a lot) for a VASS inspector to come and oversee the (re)installation of each piece, probably just for a steering wheel, seats, harness and roll bar, which are all (when done properly) safer than the originals, except for the steering wheel.

I must say, I'd rather crash at 80km/h with a bucket seat, roll bar and harness, minus the airbag, than a reg seat, seatbelt and airbag, especially for a side on impact.

I might just move to QLD or something...

[Pamex]

I'm back from lunch.

Harnesses:

Section D, Seat Belts of the following document.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonl ... 12_WEB.pdf

They have to comply with ADR 4 (Seat Belts) and where fitted by the manufacturer, be the same or equivalent. SO you need to retain a retractable seat belt, which a harness is not, as Mazda fitted this.

Do whatever you want, but there is the legislation for you.

Just bear in mind, that you may be the primary driver, but other people (mechanics, panel beaters etc) may need to road test your vehicle. Make sure you're not putting them at risk.

Edit: No probs.

[StuwieP]

no reason why you can't retain the original seatbelt and the harnesses. I wear the seatbelt for DD and the harness stays hidden away for track days. Have worn it on the street a few times but it takes so long to get into because, as has been noted, if you don't have them done up right they're useless. And "done up right" means "so tight you can't move, even to look over your shoulder."

I realise though if you have airbags you probably dont have the transmission tunnel mounted seatbelt stalk (as on early NAs). So you still have to reinforce the harness mounting locations properly.

There are reqs for how you go about that so more reading needed. Essentially requires the use of appropriate size/material backing plates. Same for the seats. You can remove original mounting points but again there are reqs for what vicroads wants your approved engineer to sign off on/

Good luck

Stu

[hks_kansei]

Whatever, I'll just plead ignorance and claim that the internet didn't give me the answer therefore it doesn't exist, and then just pay the fine, show them that I've put the original back on, and then go home and swap it back.

More than a fine and an easy fix.

No airbag, or modified/removed seatbelts is a major defect.

So, unlike a normal yellow one where you drive home, fix it, then have it cleared, a major defect means no driving the car at all, paying for a tow truck home, repairing the car, paying for a tow truck to take it to the RWC centre, paying for the RWC, towing it home, then another tow to Vicroads to get them to clear it.




It's a lot cheaper to just not remove airbags.

[droo]

You could also always swap to an NA6/8 if you really need to have the steering wheel - Based on whats been said so far, i think this is could be considered reasonable.

For what it's worth, if you do end up doing these mods, make sure you don't post photos of your car/registration on this forum. If the powers that be read through, and that's been known to happen with other forums, and learn you've performed these mods to your vehicle, theres a much improved chance of ...may the force be with you.

[mazmad]

Changing cars for a steering wheel? I don't know why anyone would give up an airbag on the road (and without harness) in the first place. Check youtube out for how much the body moves around with a standard harness. Connecting with a metal wheel would not be fun.