Fatality at a track day in the US

[motomenace]

PAUL F.....

At no stage did i say that you shouldn't buy safty equipment!! SO DON'T TURN WORDS AROUND!!! You knew exactly what i was saying so why try be smart!!

I havent seen you at the track racing door to door so wont waste my breath on you.

As for the seat u obviously haven't tried fitting one to an mx5 na or nb. Not all seats will fit because of the tunnel, unless you go modifying it. NC are old mans cars so are bigger ... (thats a joke dont cry!!) so its a bit easier.
A reclineable seat has more tendency to move under load, fixed back are always stronger.

Guran sums it up best..

[JBT]

...NC are old mans cars so are bigger ... (thats a joke dont cry!!) so its a bit easier...

...and I guess a race seat would be illegal for road use as the NC seat has side airbags.

[motomenace]

Yep

[mazmad]

Here's food for thought fellas. Should a protective cup be part of the gear in the safety bag? There are instances of people's lives being potentially saved by their 5 or 6 point harness. Only to suffer pretty gruesome injuries to the nether injuries. And trust me, it ain't pretty, I won't copy and post the pictures here in case any of you are still dining......

[manga_blue]

Correct fitting should avoid those.

http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/2009 ... ctions.pdf

[deviant]

PAUL F.....
I havent seen you at the track racing door to door so wont waste my breath on you.

Calm down fella. What you wrote does, at first read, come across as though you are advocating not bothering with the correct safety gear in favour of just driving differently.

It seems that you have plenty of experience and have been through a big shunt, perhaps you can tell us the story of that? Everyone can learn something.

Here's food for thought fellas. Should a protective cup be part of the gear in the safety bag? There are instances of people's lives being potentially saved by their 5 or 6 point harness. Only to suffer pretty gruesome injuries to the nether injuries. And trust me, it ain't pretty, I won't copy and post the pictures here in case any of you are still dining......

I know the pictures you speak of. I have never heard of people wearing a cup and I would think it is advised you do not. General advise suggests that you should not wear anything hard between your harness and your body.

I used to know a chap that raced and had a very heavy accident at Philip Island. We were chatting about motorsport one day and got talking about harnesses and he said that in his big accident the 6th point did give him a kick in the scrote but he is mighty glad he ran 6 point harnesses as the lap portion stayed right where it should have done. A bit of ball ache was worth surviving the accident....though this was pre-hans days and he still suffers some neck and back problems a number of years on.

I think the trick with the crotch harness is making sure it is correctly adjusted and making sure you take the time to make sure everything is well positioned and that nothing is sneaking around to get pinched between harness and leg.

Personally I prefer a 6 point harness where the crotch strap is in a V rather than held apart by a T at the top. I find with the V type when I have it all adjusted right the widest part is right where I can keep everything neatly stowed. The T Type is a bit pinchy...

I like this:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspor ... utch-strap

Not this:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspor ... utch-strap

I found this rather telling picture. This is Scott Pyes HANS device after his big smash at Symmons Plains. The longer strap shows how much the strap stretched in the accident.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[motomenace]

KK fair enough, im a little impatient atm as im on some strong pain killers after an operation.

Basically i stand with what i said. Spending all that money on safty gear is fine!. I personaly only use a fixed back sparco seat, 6 point race harness with the fat straps 3inch. Good boots full fire suit an extreamly good carbon fibre motorcycle helmet. (light weight very important).

Ive been around racing for a long time, my father used to race SUPERKARTS 260kmph no roll over protection and no seatbelts and there were very few injuries.
Ive been in shunts and our black car recently hit the wall at wakefield after loosing brakes down the back straight. No ones fault. A faulty master cylynder. my cousine wears a hans device as his car is alot faster than mine. He also uses a sparco seat and the same harness.

What i seen when racing bikes (where the point i made previous about all the gear but no idea) comes. So many times u see guys rock up with the latest and greatest safty gear, best leathers, boots gloves etc and show up on a 180hp+ litre bike never tracked before and guess what.. Fall off and have a massive shunt. All because they thought they were invincible with all the gear on. Where they would have better spent the money on lessons and learning to ride.

Same goes for racing cars. U can be a lot safer having lessons and learning car control etc then buying all the gear but having no clue what to do when something goes wrong. This is where my first point comes. I don't dispute that u are always better off having the gear but make sure you also spend the money on learning and preparing your car. Old tyres can catch u off guard, brakes not up to spec, wrong seating position, pedals too close to far etc.

The point i was trying to make is Safety gear is only one part of being safe on track, but its not the only factor in safety!!

Its sad their is another loss of life in motorsport but look. He was driving a modified integra, helmet not strapped on, no safty gear and the biggest problem about the whole thing for me is the GF in the front seat. Obviously trying 11/10ths to impress. Its all very sad but my point stands safty isnt JUST down to the gear you wear, there are also other factors. Imagine if randoms could waltz in and race f1 cars.. how many serious incidents would that cause!!!

Cheers

[PaulF]

PAUL F.....

At no stage did i say that you shouldn't buy safty equipment!! SO DON'T TURN WORDS AROUND!!! You knew exactly what i was saying so why try be smart!!

I havent seen you at the track racing door to door so wont waste my breath on you.

As for the seat u obviously haven't tried fitting one to an mx5 na or nb. Not all seats will fit because of the tunnel, unless you go modifying it...
A reclineable seat has more tendency to move under load, fixed back are always stronger.

Fair enough, evidently I misinterpreted the implication of that message. My apologies.

No you haven't, I was simply trying to make the point that door-to-door racing incorporates a lot of factors which are out of the driver's control and participants need to prepare for the worst case scenario.

Actually I've been in a number of NA's with a number of different aftermarket seats and I'm well aware of the fitment issues (been doing some research for my own car). I'm just saying that fixed back seats are not "one size fits all".

And I still stand by my opinion that the statement "fixed back are always stronger" is too broad a generalisation. There are some very good reclining seats and some very poor fixed seats available these days. In an accident, I think I would prefer to be in a reclinable Recaro than an Ebay Sparco knock-off. This is just my gut feeling though; perhaps even the worst of fixed backs is better than the best reclinable seat. I suspect not though.

No disrespect meant to you motomenace.

[mazmad]

Paul some of the guys in the US are wearing 'cups' - I am not sold on it...

Matt I thought the same thing when I saw he had his gf. So will you be right to do the FOSC? (I am not).

[motomenace]

All good Paul,

I was a bit quick to jump down your throat

I would never ever put an ebay knock of replica seat in any car!!! If the seat is cams/fia approved you will be safe.
Anything that is certified should mean your safe.. Providing all fitment of the harness seat etc is correct. What i have noticed is the V-Sprint actually will fit 90% of drivers if it doesn't the driver is probably to big to be in an mx5 :/. There is also the cobra seat that is nearly the same mounting width but a little wider in the shoulders and lower hip section. Alot of racers have had to chop the floor/tunnel in order for them to fit in the 5. Youd be better being too tight in a seat than too loose as well. Check out www.racedeal.com as they have tons of seats all with measurements. And also top quality saftey gear at always discounted prices!!

I know of one kid i used to work with, he had (a fully sic) honda civic, which he had two v-sprint seats in his car. He was rear ended by a b-double at 110kph. He had only standard belts but had the seats mounted properly. He was in a coma for 3 weeks, but amazingly his back (spine) was all in tact with minor bruising. The crash investigation said had he not had those seats, not only would his back be shattered but more than likely he'd be dead!! All buy having just a decent seat!!

I wont be racing at fosc . Taking a tad longer to recover than id hoped, and i cant get the car ready either. Ill be ready again around August. I wont race unless im 100% fit and no issues with health as u need all the wits u have when on the track!!