mx5 vvt head swap.

[sailaholic]

ITBs are great if you like na engines but aren't a cost effective way to make cheap hp.

get a turbo.

Dann

Ftfy

[NitroDann]

ITBs are great if you like to spend a lot of money on anodized parts that people at car meets who dont appreciate real performance will love, and you dont mind being slower than a hacked up cant give it away greddy kit, OR your race class forbids forced induction.

get a turbo.

Dann

better?

get ITBs if you want but they wont do anything worth while without man sized camshafts and compression.

Dann

[sailaholic]

Guess its as close as I'm going to get from you. They do actually do something, engine revs a lot cleaner at the top but yes slower then a hacked up turbo kit.

Off topic, but I had the choice of a na6 turbo or an na8 itb car when buying. I liked the way the itbs drove better. The turbo spanked the itbs in terms of pace but I walked away from it ( the turbo) disappointed none the less.

[NitroDann]

id bet 90% of that was tune and compression.

Dann

[sailaholic]

id bet 90% of that was tune and compression.

Dann

90 percent of what?

[NitroDann]

the thing you felt was lacking.

Dann

[project.r.racing]

I'd agree with dann. Turbo will produce more power for less money.

ITBs are also my preference over turbo. But if I use my brain, turbo wins. If I use my heart, ITBs win.

I guess if you do go down the ITBs route. If it does ultimately end in fail. Then add a surge tank, incooler and turbo. Leave the ITBs there.

[sailaholic]

What I felt was lacking was probably mostly rev range and "feel".

the turbo was out of puff fairly early in the rev range such like 5800? And I actually got less enjoyment out of the acceleration as it was all over, no fuss, and next gear would put you in "hoon" territory when in the street, which was the purpose of the car.

The idea that this could be fixed with more compression, pipes etc didn't really interest me. I liked the itb feel better, and seeing as the point of the car was to drive something I liked, that was more important then the power from the turbo (which was the opposite of what I was thinking going into the test drives).

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree if it's lots of power or cheap power is what you want turbo is the go. But saying itbs do nothing and is only good for hard parking is both inaccurate and a bit derogatory. If you don't believe me, ask warren. :smile:

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[carlmx5]

Exactly. Deep down in my heart itbs feel right. Seems though getting them engineered for daily use seems near impossible with new laws

[NitroDann]

What I felt was lacking was probably mostly rev range and "feel".

This isnt 'turbos' this is setup and tune, pats na6 turbo snaps the needle off the end of the OEM dial very willingly.

the turbo was out of puff fairly early in the rev range such like 5800? And I actually got less enjoyment out of the acceleration as it was all over, no fuss, and next gear would put you in "hoon" territory when in the street, which was the purpose of the car.

Again setup of that car

The idea that this could be fixed with more compression, pipes etc didn't really interest me. I liked the itb feel better, and seeing as the point of the car was to drive something I liked, that was more important then the power from the turbo (which was the opposite of what I was thinking going into the test drives).
There is no 'feel' that cannot be quantified with numbers. When somebody shows me a dyno graph, torque curve, accleleration curve or similar of why an ITB car feels better than aturbo car Ill change my mind if you take a stock Bp and add properly sized ITBs and exhaust to one and properly sized turbo setup to the other both will have almost identical response and the turbo car will make the same or higher Hp and torque at all rpm from cruise to 1000rpm past the redline.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree if it's lots of power or cheap power is what you want turbo is the go. But saying itbs do nothing and is only good for hard parking is both inaccurate and a bit derogatory. If you don't believe me, ask warren. :smile:

Warren has big cams, which is why I mentioned big cams were key.
I dont know a single non Vtec ITB streetcar that I have ever seen with cams big enough to make the sort of power 4psi of boost will. Spending 4000 dollars on ITBs and exhaust and ecu and 256 cams is stupid and i dont mind being derogatory towards that decision, unless the decision is made you think ITBs are cool, in which case, they are for hardparking.


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Dann

[NitroDann]

Exactly. Deep down in my heart itbs feel right. Seems though getting them engineered for daily use seems near impossible with new laws

no more difficult than any other ecu choice.

You just enclosed filter/s.

Dann

[sailaholic]

Dann your missing the point.

Yes I'm aware that a turbo CAN do thoes things but not every car is pats car and not every wants to go to the level.

And things can have a "feel" that's not seen on one of many curves. It's comes Down to preferences. Preferences are subjective and therefore more hp, torque or what ever you want to measure does not mean its better for that persons preference.

So please get off your performance high horse and stop calling everyone with itbs to be idiotic hard parkers.

[NitroDann]

And things can have a "feel" that's not seen on one of many curves.

but this is wrong.

Dann

[Hjt]

How did Pats car run the other weekend? as good as mine?

[NitroDann]

He didn't run it he was busy at work. He is doing a racing round in a few weeks.

Dann