What ECU for my SE

[chops]

That sums up my decision to go with the haltech as well, should be finished next week!

[greenMachine]

FWIW, I have just replaced the E8 in the racecar with a PS1000.

[gslender]

I'd be keen to have someone detail their installation and full costs, number of times/days it was at the installers, and genuine account of how it runs and idles etc... how much of the factory accessories (AC idle, lights, fans etc) are all working correctly etc.

I know I'm "mega" biased, but would like to be fully aware of what else is available that offers equal or better value. I hate nothing more than being blind to the alternatives and really would like to know how good the alternatives are and how trouble free the installation is (and quality of install).

Obviously buying the kit is step 1 - and at $1900 for a unit and harness, that's good value, but still more expensive for something that is equally the same in almost all areas.

The 2nd step is the cost of installation and quality of tune - and I'd be very keen to hear what that's like. I've heard horror stories where people have had the car back countless times to get it right, and still after spending $2000+ just in tuning on a Dyno etc. If you can get it installed for under $1000 and it runs just like factory with zero cold start issues, no idle problems and all the accessories working just like they should, then for under $3,000 you've bought something that is very good value plus having solid local support etc.

Obviously that's more than double the price of the MS3 Pro (and 4x the MSPNP2) which you could consider installing and tuning yourself - I did, and I'm not a mechanic! I guess it is like painting a fence vs paying a contractor - you save money and retain the satisfaction of saying "I did that"...

G

[mrpham]

I have two mates that both bought Haltech PS1000s for their cars, one was a R33 Skyline and the other was an S15.

The R33 had a built engine with larger turbo, injectors, fuel pump etc. Workshop installed the ECU but all the tuner did was pretty much load up a basemap and called it a day, wasn't cheap either because this workshop is well known and often recommended because of their top quality work

The S15, my mate installed the ECU and than left the car at the workshop to be tuned. He was charged for this tune, but later found out it was just a basemap and no tuning was done whatsoever. My friend eventually learned how to tune and road tuned his car.

I'm not going to name the workshops, both places recommend the Haltech because it's what they're used to.

[gslender]

I have two mates that both bought Haltech PS1000s for their cars, one was a R33 Skyline and the other was an S15.

The R33 had a built engine with larger turbo, injectors, fuel pump etc. Workshop installed the ECU but all the tuner did was pretty much load up a basemap and called it a day, wasn't cheap either because this workshop is well known and often recommended because of their top quality work

The S15, my mate installed the ECU and than left the car at the workshop to be tuned. He was charged for this tune, but later found out it was just a basemap and no tuning was done whatsoever. My friend eventually learned how to tune and road tuned his car.

I'm not going to name the workshops, both places recommend the Haltech because it's what they're used to.

I assume you're saying the tune was sh*t, but was supposedly tuned correctly by a reputable shop? Ouch!

G

[NitroDann]

Slapping a base map from a similar car on is a common tactic based on my experience.

Dann

[mrpham]

I assume you're saying the tune was sh*t, but was supposedly tuned correctly by a reputable shop? Ouch!

G

Slapping a base map from a similar car on is a common tactic based on my experience.

Dann

Completely un-acceptable considering what they paid for these "tunes", they both know better now. I told the guy with an R33 to make a complaint to Haltech because the workshop that did his car is an authorised dealer

[Sean]

The 2nd step is the cost of installation and quality of tune - and I'd be very keen to hear what that's like. I've heard horror stories where people have had the car back countless times to get it right, and still after spending $2000+ just in tuning on a Dyno etc. If you can get it installed for under $1000 and it runs just like factory with zero cold start issues, no idle problems and all the accessories working just like they should, then for under $3,000 you've bought something that is very good value plus having solid local support etc.

That's where my 'perception' came from. I've installed a microtech on an NA6 turbo that idled nicely, cold started flawlessly, and passed IM240 - all with 650cc injectors. I wired it in myself, paid for a single tune in the early days, then for more tunes as things changed (added turbo, changed injectors etc). I wired it in myself and it started first go on the base map. I've also wired in an Autronic with CDI and full launch control which idles and runs flawlessly. When I say flawlessy (in both cases) I mean they were factory-like to a point where my 60+ father could jump in cold and drive them comfortably without an issue, and with the microtech'd car my 21yo GF was happy to drive it (her car being a brand new Toyota).

I think anything that comes with a plug and play harness and a base map that will start is a great option - Haltech offers that and from reading here it seems the MS3 does too. The cost of a plug and play harness on almost any brand of ECU is far cheaper than paying someone to wire it in and generally means you'll get wiring for all of the required functionality.

I think the worst case scenarios are hard to compare, just as the best case ones are. A competant and wiling tuner can get most anything to work very nicely, but even on this limited and relatively small forum you'll find people who love and hate almost every type of ECU, and even people who've tried a few to end up with something different...

The debate is almost like the what's better an SE or SP?

[gslender]

True, but folks here seem to just blindly assume any local supported brand ecu = quality install with zero issues. I'm curious to know how common that is as the alternative is being pushed as being an individual installation requiring DIY commitment and knowledge.

I tend to believe that you'd either need lots of $$ or that same personal commitment.

G

[gslender]

I think anything that comes with a plug and play harness and a base map that will start is a great option - Haltech offers that and from reading here it seems the MS3 does too. The cost of a plug and play harness on almost any brand of ECU is far cheaper than paying someone to wire it in and generally means you'll get wiring for all of the required functionality.

Another thing worth pointing out....

All aftermarket ECUs are pretty much designed for off road/track use. I'd go as far as saying that racing is the primary reason these ECUs are being used for, as such, things like AC idle up/CEL illumination for faults/advanced CL PID idle etc are things that very few if any race engines need.

In light of this, you should be thinking that it isn't always true that a plug-n-play harness and base map/tune will support anything more than starting the engine and getting you to the Dyno.

This is why I'm keen to hear from people who are actually prepared to share the true costs and effort involved with configuring their MX5 SE and are prepared to talk openly about how those extra items were accommodated - eg. how does the idle cope when you yank on the steering wheel and the steering pump dips the RPM... in the stock engine, it would barely be noticeable - but for an ECU configured for steady state warmup PWM idle, the engine would noticeably dip and hunt until the idle stabilises again. What about turning on AC, Fans, Lights etc... how does the idle perform? What about the CEL and other O2 closed loop fuel trim - how is that being accomplished?

I know how to configure and this all can be done on the MS2 and MS3 ECUs - what about all the others and who did them?

If you have a base-map from a Haltech or Adaptronic, that can be read by downloading the tuning software (or a text file) I'd be keen to look at it. I doubt they have anything setup for those things above I mention. Anyone keen to share?

G

[timk]

Another thing worth pointing out....

All aftermarket ECUs are pretty much designed for off road/track use. I'd go as far as saying that racing is the primary reason these ECUs are being used for, as such, things like AC idle up/CEL illumination for faults/advanced CL PID idle etc are things that very few if any race engines need.

In light of this, you should be thinking that it isn't always true that a plug-n-play harness and base map/tune will support anything more than starting the engine and getting you to the Dyno.

This is why I'm keen to hear from people who are actually prepared to share the true costs and effort involved with configuring their MX5 SE and are prepared to talk openly about how those extra items were accommodated - eg. how does the idle cope when you yank on the steering wheel and the steering pump dips the RPM... in the stock engine, it would barely be noticeable - but for an ECU configured for steady state warmup PWM idle, the engine would noticeably dip and hunt until the idle stabilises again. What about turning on AC, Fans, Lights etc... how does the idle perform? What about the CEL and other O2 closed loop fuel trim - how is that being accomplished?

Awesome post, I totally agree this is the worst part of having an aftermarket computer. These little issues make a big difference to a daily drive and can drive you to insanity if they aren't spot on!

[sailaholic]

I can share on adaptronic. It's not a se unit but does use inputs for load triggering due to fan lights ac ect to increase the idle value.

My idle at this stage works, but is not factory level and does sometime take a while for the ecu to figure out its base level setting are right and then adjusts. I should go back and try and tune this problem out but I'm short on time and have some other gremlins I'm chasing.

Having said this, itbs and bigger cams probably don't help the idle characteristics.

I also agree with Tim k that that idle and (for me light throttle) are the tricky / annoying / expensive parts to get right.

Seeing as we are both bayside we can probably arrange something where you can have a look at the unit in car. I'm even open to a short term ecu swap. I've configured mine to run 4 ign and 4 inj channels though so not sure if it would be that easy to swap a MS in?

[gslender]

Seeing as we are both bayside we can probably arrange something where you can have a look at the unit in car. I'm even open to a short term ecu swap. I've configured mine to run 4 ign and 4 inj channels though so not sure if it would be that easy to swap a MS in?

I'd be up for it, and the biggest consideration would be how you connect into the harness. On my MS3 Pro I'm wiring into the stock NA6 harness, and so it doesn't have support for 4 ign or inj. As such I've made my own 4 ch inj connector and use 2 ign batch for spark (even though the ms3 can do 8 ch ign/inj).

The MS3 Pro has an AMPSEAL connector, so technically I could just buy another harness and wire up the same connector as yours and you'd be ready to go. How I'd connect into your Adaptronic I'm not sure... what can you share about the way it is connected?

[gslender]

It's not a se unit but does use inputs for load triggering due to fan lights ac ect to increase the idle value.

I'm not doubting that most modern $1000+ aftermarket ECUs have many inputs/outputs to control idle, CEL and other accessories - what I'm wondering is how "configured" is the supposedly simple "base map" and if you take it to a "tuning shop" to get tuned, do they spend hours and hours to get it right? If so, then how much does that cost?

Also, as you have to cold tune the car during all climate conditions - how are people doing really cold start (where temps are below freezing or near) vs a cold engine in a warm climate start... which can be 35 deg outside but engine sitting unused for 4 days?

You see, it is these things that I really, really doubt anyone with ECU that was "supplied and tuned by the shop" has got right... unless they leave the car with them for a week in summer and again in winter it would be almost impossible to get right! Sure, some places might have perfected the standard tune and warm-up tables over many installs - in which case you'd want a list of past customers and confirm that indeed they have.

I'm happy to be shown otherwise, but I would be expecting anyone who was get an aftermarket ECU supplied and installed for < $2000 are probably happy to put up with a fairly average running engine that is really best when racing and not something you can live with easily on the street - unless they are prepared to tinker, tune and basically DIY.

Which brings me back to why not try something that has been designed from the beginning as DIY ?? You'll probably have to learn and do it yourself anyway!

G

[timk]

Is it an E420C or a newer Select model?

If it is the new model I can probably help out with an Adaptronic loom and a DIYBOB, for the purposes of testing/comparison.