Whats happening to the MX5 racing??

[little decks]

I think the point has been somewhat missed here... im not saying that its impossible to do what you are doing... but what your doing is in no way on the same level as the faster race cars out there... going from track days to supersprints and hill climbs is a bit of a step but stepping from there up to full blown circuit racing requires much more than what you would think at first glance and until you've actually turned up and done it what you claim to be able to do is of little relevance.

[NitroDann]

A bit reason people don't have these cars is Humility.

Why am I one of the few with a nice driving reliable quick as most NA and only spent a couple of thousand including purchase cost?

Because I don't mind an ugly one.

Why have some people achieved cheap reliable turbo cars? They don t mind waiting for the parts at a good price, using used parts, and using e bare minimum to get the job done. Why do you have a full stainless tubular manifold and name brand exhaust on your 200hp car when 800 worth of basic mild log manifold exhaust and downpipe will do?

Why do you have a 1500 dollar APR wing when an eBay copy for 300. And use the rest to pay for your ecu and injectors?

People like to spend money and brag as much as they like to have a quick car.

Yes circuit racing is expensive however I'm simply talking about the rules which mandate 25k on an engine rather than 3500 as I've listed. A 20k+ saving is a 20k+ saving.

Dann

[little decks]

None of what you have said is of any relevance to the point i have made...you cant sit there and claim how it can all be done to that standard for nowhere near the cost. Everyone out there racing an MX5 is not doing it because they like spending money... that is just idiotic, people who like to brag about cost buy gt spec cars. People out there racing MX5s do it because cost vs performance the MX5 is one of the cheapest out there....

There is plenty of people out there who race MX5s and are trying to avoid spending a lot of money... unfortunately within the rules of most CAMS meetings they want to run in this means they wont be competitive.

The actual point im making here though Dann is... i dont really care how ugly your car is, and until you bring it to an event with official timing and show people that it is actually within the same realm of pace that you claim it is I don't really care about how fast you say it is... You see it time and time again in every aspect of life... its always easy until you're the one doing it and at this point you haven't done it, you say your car is 'fast' but on what scale? how quick is it compared to a front running 2F car? Its not about how expensive or how ghetto it is, its about its pace on a measureable scale... and the best scale for that is the racetrack.

[Boyracer]

Dan, you need to bring a turbo MX5 out and do some real racing, do some one hour races, and then you will get it...if it was easy and cheap everyone would do it.

Personally after running a couple of turbo cars I just went back to running a NA car, build a really good engine....never have to open the bonnet...have never regretted it.

Getting back to the original topic...can one of the QLD. people tell me why after having such a great category with the MX5 races in QLD why did everyone go to Prod. Sports?...I don't get it....Prod. Sports in NSW is crap, they let in GT cars for some unknown reason and there were only 3 at Bathurst and they got first and second outright....that's a bit embarrassing I reckon, why the hell are they there??

[NitroDann]

I said 200whp can be done reliably for a few thousand but the rules dictate people have to spent literally 10x more.

Nothing more or less.

Dann

[little decks]

I said 200whp can be done reliably for a few thousand but the rules dictate people have to spent literally 10x more.

Nothing more or less.

Dann

What im saying to you though Dann is getting that sort of power to blast off a set of lights on a friday night and getting that power to race at high revs at wide open throttle on a circuit for an hour at a time are two completely different things and what you say can be done and what you have actually been able to achieve are two completely different things, so until you actually do it you don't have a clue...

Nothing more or less.

There is nothing in the rules that say "mx5s must achieve 200whp reliably" if the rules allowed complete freedom to do the mods you are talking about you would be wobbling around at the back with your $3500 special and people will spend 50k and will have twice as much power as you... thats what you fail to see.

[NitroDann]

You aren't reading what I'm saying.

Rules mandating factory equipment only but then allowing SPs drive the price of sp manifolds through the roof because there is limited supply. People spending 30k to build 200whp when you can do it for a tenth that

I understand a whole car will cost tens of thousands but why do the rules encourage spending 2k on an sp manifold when a log that costs 200 in materials is equal in performance and reliability.

I never said that front running 350whp turbo cars were cheap but factory components are fine with 200hp and the 200hp turbo build does not cost tens of thousands like a 200hp na build can. The rules are the problem when it's sposed to be budget racing but they allow people to fight over just 100 existing sp manifolds, for example.

Dann

[little decks]

I am reading it, you just don't understand that your statements are redundant... the rules don't allow you to run your ghetto spec turbo because if they did they cannot turn away a well built turbo that cost 10x as much and based on your platform has the potential if built properly to go twice as fast... you cant just rock up with your cheap turbo set up and demand to be allowed to run because it makes similar power to the front running cars... that wouldnt be fair to those who spent more money to achieve that power within the rules.

[NitroDann]

All that money for something that can be achieved on a stock 1.6 with 3k worth of turbo gear, the rules must be horrible. ts a shame.

Dann

Which is exactly the point. The problem is with the rules, power to weight with Control on tyres and aero etc allows cheap racing. It's just like the falcadore budget racing guys with 6 cyl falcons buy 15 heads just to get the one factory casting that makes 4hp more. So how does limiting to factory components limit budget and keep it fair between big budget guys and small?

Same issue here.

Follow me now?

This is the ONLY point I'm making. I'm not at all saying I can come win the current rules for 3500 I'm saying the rules suck.

Dann

[little decks]

Its never that simple... for example under your system there would be people spending a fortune chasing torque and mid range power not peak power... so they go through endless cam combinations different blades on turbo wheels and manifolds etc... what a lot of people never get when it comes to motorsport is that no matter how hard you try to stop it, people will come along and find a way to spend more money than everyone else to win... like Lou said, if it were so simple and cheap everyone would be doing it... you don't think people have tried similar rule combinations?

[toppertee]

Its never that simple... for example under your system there would be people spending a fortune chasing torque and mid range power not peak power... so they go through endless cam combinations different blades on turbo wheels and manifolds etc... what a lot of people never get when it comes to motorsport is that no matter how hard you try to stop it, people will come along and find a way to spend more money than everyone else to win... like Lou said, if it were so simple and cheap everyone would be doing it... you don't think people have tried similar rule combinations?

Pretty much the way I look at it.

[toppertee]

Getting back to the original topic...can one of the QLD. people tell me why after having such a great category with the MX5 races in QLD why did everyone go to Prod. Sports?...I don't get it....Prod. Sports in NSW is crap, they let in GT cars for some unknown reason and there were only 3 at Bathurst and they got first and second outright....that's a bit embarrassing I reckon, why the hell are they there??

I think pscraq are asking themselves the same question.

[NitroDann]

Toppertee proposed rules which I pointed the same thing out of course people will try lots of cam combinations so mandate no cam swaps.

Look the yanks use power to weight and a point system and you never hear them complain but in oz all you ever hear is that the rules suck so something is wrong.

Dann

[little decks]

You've just missed the point completely... there are so many factors that can effect midrange, you don't hear yanks whinge because you don't live or race over there... Dad went over last december to race in the thunder hill 25 hour race and i can assure you there is more whinging there than here the points system doesn't work perfectly either because how do you quantify how two different modifcations put you in the same points class as someone else... its already the same problem.

[Boyracer]

Forget Prod. Sports, bring your NA with $3500 turbo to MX5 challenge or come and do the Winton/Wakefield 300s' there are pretty much no rules....as I said if you havn't done it you have no idea.