Disappopinted $2000 spend

[PaulF]

Hahahahaha A.S. you are hilarious. Seriously made my night. Mazda 323 engine = pinnacle of performance engineering. Anyway, back to the question...

mexiegirl, have you spoken to your "performance engine guy" about your results?

[sailaholic]

No ecu, no tune, disappointing but semi expected. Can't do that big of a change and not alter the tune. 2k sounds pretty cheap for what you did.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Hjt]

The BP is a highly produces engine

[Aussie Stig]

Ha Ha, you all misreading again.

My comments were not that it is a high performance monster of an engine. It was never designed for that.

By highly developed I meant it difficult to make changes to the stock that would turn it into a hot cracker. Esp NB8B variety which is the end of the line.

On the contrary it is a solid performer combining durability, economy and reliability. The same attributes could be said of the BRZ/86 unit me thinks.

Prove me wrong and I would be happy to throw a couple of grand into turning it into a vtec beater but it aint gonna happen.

Repeat again.... Turbo, exhaust, intercooler, ecu but it aint gonna be 2 grands worth!

[project.r.racing]

Damn Damn Damn

I just spent about $2,000 on making some horsey's for my NA8, I took the head off myself and took it to a performance engine guy, shaved the head to 10:1, ported and CC'd the chambers. While waiting for the head I match ported the manifold and deburred the throttle body. I also took the cam's to Camtech and reground to both 8.5mm and 256 deg advertised, serviced the injectors and ceramic coated my 4,2,1 extractors and metal intake tube.
End result is I think about 5 horspower (WTF).
I also to finish I added adjustable cam wheels so I played with them so power is maximum.
In theory I was expecting around 30 horsepower, where did this go wrong guys, I should have spent the 2,000 on a turbo.

A

here is my take on it. and only going on the info you have provided already.

impossible to shave head to 10:1, the most you can shave off a BP-05 head will only give you 0.15 extra compression. if you paid for that, was a waste of money.
wtf is ported and CC'd chambers?
also you removed lift from the exhaust camshaft.

the headwork is something that you do later in your engine modding life, as it only net gains for 0-1%. which is why it is something left to last, exspence vs gain is minimal. and by having the camshaft regound like they way they were, you've gained in some aspects and lost in some aspects, reducing the net hp gain.

most toda/procam/maruha camshafts only gain 5-7kW/7-11hp on a stock engine that will be stock ECU friendly. any camshaft in the 250s will play fine with a stock ecu. and all those cams i listed have an extra 1mm of lift over yours which increases torque and finally peak hp.

but if you are planning to upgrade the ecu, then those camshafts a just expensive poorly reground paperweights. as you can upgrade to almost any duration and power increase with a programmable ecu.

Could've saved $800 but buying new Maruha F-cams and cam gears and installing them yourself. Would've got the same gains or better. You live and you learn.

[ralt]

Hi.
Interested to read this topic and some of the comments posted. Agree the cost seems cheap. Modifying cylinder heads if done properly by somebody who knows what they are doing is an art.
You should now give the engine a compression test to ascertain the bottom end is supporting the modifications done to the top end.
Please post the results.

[vrmmmpshhh]

if you have the knowledge to remove the head from the car then turbocharging it will be a walk in the park. i actually don't know why people bother spending money on NA in a street car, all the power is so high up in the rev range you rarely use it.

[NitroDann]

here is my take on it. and only going on the info you have provided already.

impossible to shave head to 10:1, the most you can shave off a BP-05 head will only give you 0.15 extra compression. if you paid for that, was a waste of money.

Not sure if this is true however 10:1 really isnt very high at all
wtf is ported and CC'd chambers?

I imagine this is bowl work, where the combustion chambers are tidied up of sharp edges and all chambers are worked on until they are the same capacity.

also you removed lift from the exhaust camshaft.

yeah, not much can be said about this that isnt obvious.

the headwork is something that you do later in your engine modding life, as it only net gains for 0-1%.

I absolutely dont agree with this, its not a lot of gain on a stock engine because the ports arent usually the bottle neck, but only getting 1% ever is way way wrong.

which is why it is something left to last, exspence vs gain is minimal. and by having the camshaft regound like they way they were, you've gained in some aspects and lost in some aspects, reducing the net hp gain.

most toda/procam/maruha camshafts only gain 5-7kW/7-11hp on a stock engine that will be stock ECU friendly. any camshaft in the 250s will play fine with a stock ecu. and all those cams i listed have an extra 1mm of lift over yours which increases torque and finally peak hp.

Totally spot on, agreed on all points.

but if you are planning to upgrade the ecu, then those camshafts a just expensive poorly reground paperweights. as you can upgrade to almost any duration and power increase with a programmable ecu.

Could've saved $800 but buying new Maruha F-cams and cam gears and installing them yourself. Would've got the same gains or better. You live and you learn.

Should have gone to wozzah.

To plug Wozz, he will build you a full head package WITH cams ready to drop in for a great price, just tell him what you want and how hard you want it to go, send him the head and some money and then bolt on an extra 30-80whp (after intake exhaust and ecu).

Dann

[NitroDann]

if you have the knowledge to remove the head from the car then turbocharging it will be a walk in the park. i actually don't know why people bother spending money on NA in a street car, all the power is so high up in the rev range you rarely use it.

My last car drove better than stock, way way more torque everywhere.

Instead of a 3.9 diff you also build a motor that likes to rev a bit more and go with a lower ratio like a 4.3 or 5.x and just let it rev, then you are always in the band.

Dann

[sailaholic]

if you have the knowledge to remove the head from the car then turbocharging it will be a walk in the park. i actually don't know why people bother spending money on NA in a street car, all the power is so high up in the rev range you rarely use it.

That's exactly why people spend the money. They like the sound / response revs of a nice na build. Sure you can get the same revability in a turbo, but you have to spend pretty big there too.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[vrmmmpshhh]

You can comfortably drop 2k on a turbo setup and be happy with it for the life of ownership whereas 2k on a NA setup will always make u feel like you've wasted your money. My tiny td04 turbo setup costs me under 2k and would have kept me very happy as a street car but as damn knows I've gone to a s15 t28 because I've started tracking the car and entering competitive events where im in the 2000-4000cc class because of the turbo.

[wozzah1975]

Ha Ha, you all misreading again.

My comments were not that it is a high performance monster of an engine. It was never designed for that.

By highly developed I meant it difficult to make changes to the stock that would turn it into a hot cracker. Esp NB8B variety which is the end of the line.

On the contrary it is a solid performer combining durability, economy and reliability. The same attributes could be said of the BRZ/86 unit me thinks.

Prove me wrong and I would be happy to throw a couple of grand into turning it into a vtec beater but it aint gonna happen.

Repeat again.... Turbo, exhaust, intercooler, ecu but it aint gonna be 2 grands worth!

The BP is plenty easy enough to improve on power wise, even the the latest variant. But as with many engines it is easy to get it wrong.....

Woz

[wozzah1975]

Damn Damn Damn

I just spent about $2,000 on making some horsey's for my NA8, I took the head off myself and took it to a performance engine guy, shaved the head to 10:1, ported and CC'd the chambers. While waiting for the head I match ported the manifold and deburred the throttle body. I also took the cam's to Camtech and reground to both 8.5mm and 256 deg advertised, serviced the injectors and ceramic coated my 4,2,1 extractors and metal intake tube.
End result is I think about 5 horspower (WTF).
I also to finish I added adjustable cam wheels so I played with them so power is maximum.
In theory I was expecting around 30 horsepower, where did this go wrong guys, I should have spent the 2,000 on a turbo.

A

Do you have before and after dyno charts for the car? If so post them here, if not how do you know how the engine has responded to the changes?

There are a number of things that could be wrong.
-even though the head was ported, did you make an improvement to flow?
-Match porting the manifolds can be detrimental, as it can upset air speed and entry angle to the port
-Those cams aren't overly big, I wouldn't expect much of an improvement with them by themselves
-What inlet manifold are you running?

Cheers
Woz

[mexiegirl]

Ok, So can you give us exact specifics, I was thinking today that Id hate to be the bloke who'd put his rep on the line and diagnopse this, but I am 3 beers in and happy enough to be that guy.

If you could give a FULL rundown of all the parts that would be awesome.

Ill work out where the bottleneck is and you will unlock a few ponies

Dann

Hey there Dann
Sorry I missed Getting you after 3 beers but here goes
Before headdwork was a 170K engine with less than 10% variation of comp, 4,2,1 extractors, high flow cat 2/1/4 mandrel bent pipes. An adjustable Malpassi fuel reg with 5% more pressure. A low pressure intake filter thru f/wall. A 70mm metal intake tube to t/body.

After headwork is as much as I can provide as below.
Hope you can still advise me on my lil pickle.

Thanks

[mexiegirl]

if you have the knowledge to remove the head from the car then turbocharging it will be a walk in the park. i actually don't know why people bother spending money on NA in a street car, all the power is so high up in the rev range you rarely use it.

That's exactly why people spend the money. They like the sound / response revs of a nice na build. Sure you can get the same revability in a turbo, but you have to spend pretty big there too.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks Sail