What ECU for my SE

[sailaholic]

Dann, I would say ( possibly wrongly ) that the mega squirt fuel and tables are not identical.

The ms uses the afr target table to a much higher influence level. As such you need to tune both of these appropriately.

Edit:
Yes motec is still on the pedestal and are now sub 2000 for a m84. So makes it very competitive with haltec et al.

[NitroDann]

The AFR table means nothing for the tuner, its only used if you want to auto tune the fuel table.

For an MX5, its setup perfectly ready to go, never needs touching.

Dann

[gslender]

Grant would you be interested in creating a google doc and give a few here access to add information/specs regarding the different ECUs. I know Andy from Adaptronic has been really great at providing customer support, perhaps we could get him to review the spreadsheet from an Adaptronic perspective and explain the pros and cons of his ECU.

I would and will.

I'll be back and create a new thread and if the others (Adaptronic, Haltec, Motronic etc) are willing to add content, I will 100% take all of it on board - they can post like everyone else and I will be as objective and accurate as possible.

I'd love to look into this with a fair and accurate comparison - often people compare MegaSquirt with the MS1 model, which in comparison to MS3 is like carbs vs efi - they are that different.

G

[gslender]

The AFR table means nothing for the tuner, its only used if you want to auto tune the fuel table.

For an MX5, its setup perfectly ready to go, never needs touching.

Dann

Not exactly true - the base configuration in a MS has multiply map turned on (you've have to turn it off and rarely does anyone). With multiply map turned on, the VE/AFR table is used to calculate the PW in fuel, and in turn, if you have a tuned VE table, you can change the AFR table and it will correctly then change the fuel - meaning it derives the correct PW needed to match the AFR. As the relationship to the AFR and VE = the PW. It is a convenience things that helps with changing AFR without having to redo the map table.

In saying all that, most users largely ignore the AFR Table and like Dann says, you just use it to target for auto-tune.

From what I've seen of Adaptronic and Haltech, the Megasquirt is incredibly more sophisticated and advanced - there is really that much more going on that most don't realise.

G

[mrpham]

I would personally go for a MSPNP2/DIYPNP or MS3-Pro, I wanted to learn more about ECUs/tuning and the Megasquirt based stuff is perfect for this. It also means that I'm not forced to rely on anyone tuning my car, I would hope to gain enough knowledge and confidence to eventually do it myself on a dyno.

[sailaholic]

Hang on though. Isn't the afr table the reason the mega squirrel can use a fewer cell map as the afr lookup function along the moveable bins provide a much more linear (ve) fuel map?

If you don't tune the desired afr table how can you run closed loop and get good performance? If you don't run closed loop how do you keep everything nicely trimmed when cruising around?

Now I KNOW that my engine required a wavy / no linear tune to account for the effect of the itbs.

[sailaholic]

Grant would you be interested in creating a google doc and give a few here access to add information/specs regarding the different ECUs. I know Andy from Adaptronic has been really great at providing customer support, perhaps we could get him to review the spreadsheet from an Adaptronic perspective and explain the pros and cons of his ECU.

I would and will.

I'll be back and create a new thread and if the others (Adaptronic, Haltec, Motronic etc) are willing to add content, I will 100% take all of it on board - they can post like everyone else and I will be as objective and accurate as possible.

I'd love to look into this with a fair and accurate comparison - often people compare MegaSquirt with the MS1 model, which in comparison to MS3 is like carbs vs efi - they are that different.

G

There should be a like button for this

[93_Clubman]

I'd love to see a comparison chart...

Okibi, a fellow Aussie put an aftermarket ECU webpage together back in 2005 - might be of use as a template &/ or for older models. Saved it back then, but the forum won't let me attach it as it's an HTML file. Tried looking for a current link to it on the net, but it's gone! Let me know if you want it.

[gslender]

I'd love to see a comparison chart...

Okibi, a fellow Aussie put an aftermarket ECU webpage together back in 2005 - might be of use as a template &/ or for older models. Saved it back then, but the forum won't let me attach it as it's an HTML file. Tried looking for a current link to it on the net, but it's gone! Let me know if you want it.

Send it to me and I'll update it and start a Google doc based on it... gslender at gmail dot com

[93_Clubman]

Send it to me and I'll update it and start a Google doc based on it.

Done

[gslender]

For those of you having doubts about that "road tuning" using the VE Analyser provided by the MegaSquirt tuning software, have read of this real tuning test done with a known reputable tuner.

Quick summary - a UK MX5 1.6 owner gets within 2HP of what the Dyno tuner thinks he "might" be able to squeeze out. So just using the self-tuning software from TunerStudio (the MegaSquirt tuning software) you get 30% improvement above stock and pretty bloody close to a Dyno tune !! And with the money saved by not buying a big brand ECU, you can till afford to go to the Dyno and do a few runs and dial in the spark/fuel and still be in front. Impressive yeah!

Anyway, onto the hub dyno... I had explained before my visit that I was not looking for them to carry out any real tuning unless needed as I'll be swapping my 1.6 for a MK2/2.5 1.8 in a few months, so did not want to spend a lot of time or more precisely money tuning my 1.6. Richard hooked up my car to their dyno, (which is quite an impressive piece of kit), and then with Fraser, he drove the car around various cells in my fuel map to check everything looked OK Next came some power runs again first to check fueling then to see what differences my new Megasquirt/AFM delete had made. Their hub dyno is renowned for upsetting people as their are very few if any "Fudge factors" used in calculating the power at the hubs. Firstly a standard 1.6 engine MK1 on their dyno produces 76hp and 76lbs at the axles. (The highest 1.6 they have seen is one of their fully built race engines, blueprinted with oversized pistons skimmed head, 3 angle cut valves, 'optimized' AFM, 'optimiszed' timing etc produced 106hp.) My car produced 98hp and 90lbs. ( I'll post my run print out later). I'm sure if we played about with my timings a little we may have just hit 100hp at the axles but my request was to just check the map and only alter if there was a problem. Fraser hates quoting "fudge flywheel figures" but if a standard car 1.6 is 115hp car makes 76hp on their dyno, then my "fudge figure" would be around 135hp.. However I'm pretty happy with my results and both Richard and Fraser were impressed with my gains and agreed my map as it was very good, (Reverant re-scaled base map with a few tweeks and "auto VEAL" road tuning by me). In fact Fraser was trying very hard to persuade me to stick with my 1.6 engine and not swap it for my mk2/2.5. (Blink really like the 1.6's! ).

[sailaholic]

Interesting, my problem with road tuning was always getting enough time in each cell area to let the auto tune work. So I was getting a narrow band of "tuned"

[gslender]

Interesting, my problem with road tuning was always getting enough time in each cell area to let the auto tune work. So I was getting a narrow band of "tuned"

Ahhhh, the art-form is getting a view of most of the cells and then making the other regions similar. There are always areas of the curve/table that are impossible to get (or irrelevant) and even a Dyno won't fix/change that.

The latest TunerStudio software also has a "smooth cells" option that blends and takes the harsh dips/spikes out of the tune. Using the auto tune (VE Analyser), cell smoothing and some common sense you can get a VE table looking fairly good. After all, most tables looks very similar - Small fuel PW in the bottom left, largest fuel PW in the top right - curve is mostly a slight hill and flat.

Truth is, it only takes about 1 hour to dial in a VE table and you don't have to drive like a mad man or crazy hoon to do it. I took a gentlemen out on the weekend in the rain, and we didn't do anything unsafe or break the road speed limits to do the tune - we just drove around in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th using hills and allowing traffic by waiting for a clear section of road. We also used back streets and sticked to the speed limit (mostly 60 or 80).

I don't disagree that tuning on a Dyno would be better, but it isn't mandatory - not by a long stretch!

G

[toppertee]

Grant helped me install and road tune my car first time, it's never seen a dyno.
I'm more than happy to run it at a dyno shop in Brisbane and see what they think.
BTW the only problem I had was the tps.
Starts first time, every time.
I road tuned the car by myself as well to hit most of the target fuel cells. The car runs so much better than stock with a home built ecu.

[timk]

Sounds very cool!

I want to point out the Adaptronic also has a very similar autotune feature and it can also optimise ignition timing (not sure on criteria, worth a read), although I haven't personally used either of these features. Andy has updated the log output so it is compatible with MegaLogViewer (same author as TunerStudio) too!