Club Runs and Excessive Speeding

[Tony]

Those talking about competitive (non speed) events on open public roads should search the CAMS web site for "Touring Assembly". All the details and regulations are there.

The Jaguar Driver's Club run their very popular Mountain Rally each year. This is a non speed, navigation based event held on public roads. More info on this style of event is also available on the Classic Rally Club's web site http://www.classicrallyclub.com.au/index.htm

[Hjt]

negligent or dangerous drive to grievous bodily harm and manslaughter levels

Whilst I appreciate your approach and agree, the aspect of Law isn't as open as your mentioning.

Negligence is a especially more complex, I won't bother with it now but basically the charges would only be upgraded if beyond reasonable doubt the clubs organisers deemed the words "spirited" to mean "speeding"

[zero00]

Those talking about competitive (non speed) events on open public roads should search the CAMS web site for "Touring Assembly". All the details and regulations are there.

The Jaguar Driver's Club run their very popular Mountain Rally each year. This is a non speed, navigation based event held on public roads. More info on this style of event is also available on the Classic Rally Club's web site http://www.classicrallyclub.com.au/index.htm

Thanks, I don't have a CAMS manual beside me!

[manga_blue]

I'd say more than just speeding, H. Police can ask the public for information about the accident and collect witness statements attesting that run participants crossed double lines, tailgated, drove abreast, overtook unsafely, lost traction on corners, etc, etc in the time leading up to the accident, probably whether it happened or not. Given prevailing public opinion it wouldn't be pretty in court.

[NitroDann]

Changing the wording the club uses may help protect the club partially from legal prosecution however the underlying issues isn't the wording.

Upon mentioning this discussion to a friend of mine, he mentioned having one on one words with the only club run he went on's leader. Apparently in order to keep up to him speeds approaching 200 were in order. Obviously both the run leader and the b
Club members names will remain with held.

Dann

[greenMachine]

I think you're all off in Dreamland.

The problem lies with promoting a 'spirited' run. If there's a bad accident involving a non-participant then any half decent public prosecutor would have no trouble persuading the court that 'spirited' is a code word for reckless or dangerous driving and that the event was organised for that purpose. This would escalate the charges from negligent or dangerous drive to grievous bodily harm and manslaughter levels. The police would probably go after the organisers for conspiring to commit the crime. Up to 10 years for the drivers involved, up to 5 for the organisers. Don't know if the police would go for the sponsoring club, but the reputation damage would be extreme and the victims or their families would go for the drivers, organisers and club for damages because the CTP insurer will have a good case not to cover it.

Fixed:

Three types of runs.
1. Sight seeing
2. Cruise
3. There is no type 3

edit: replaced TPPD with CTP (green slip)

1. Engage brain.

2. Re-read Manga.

3. Problem goes away, and Club forced to schedule more track days as people seek to get their fast driving jollies in a safer and legal way.

It really is that simple ...

[colster3]

Hi Brendon,

Firstly, remarkably well constructed first post. I believe Guran will address this issue within the club environment. I have had similar experiences to yours in the past.

My choice was to enjoy the great people and atmosphere in the competition part of the club. I ended up with an MX5 race car and have been doing the whole racing thing but I am probably old enough to be your father so I am probably a bit more cashed up

Having said that I will be going with Regie and a collection of 'gentlemen' on a run in a couple of weeks. Feel free to pm me as I would be glad to be your wingman and complete the drive within your P plate restrictions. I need my licence for my job which happens to be rectifying the results of when ambition outstrips ability in cars...

Once again, well done for speaking out! The MX5 Club is full of really wonderful people and plenty enjoy their cars for what they are - truly wonderful machines! Don't let one unpleasant experience put you off!

[Sean]

Feel free to pm me as I would be glad to be your wingman and complete the drive within your P plate restrictions.

Nice one man.

This is exactly the sort of move that kept me in the club back in the day! So many great people, I hope he take you up on the offer and gets to enjoy all aspects of the club. I made plenty of good life long friends through the club... Now I have an MX again, I really should rejoin!

[colster3]

Hey Sean,

Yes you should!

The young ones get it so tough these days, back in the '70's I had 3 months on L's with no minimum time (I was taught in the country by my Grandfather when I was 9 hehehe). I was then 12 months on P plates and away you go on a full licence. No minimum hours (which I tend to think drives a dependency on the 'co-pilot')and after that you had to sink or swim. Back then P plates were a target for the HWP (that hasn't changed) but now you get most kids that are 10feet tall and bulletproof after allegedly completing 120 hours of supervised driving jumping out there and going nuts.

Brendon sounds like he has his head screwed on properly, so why not help him to enjoy his car without risking his licence...

Another alternative is for someone (me?) to take the lead with P platers and start an appropriate time ahead of the main bunch so they get the chance of a seat at the destination

[Dweezle]

Not speaking for Brendon but again, the issue has nothing do with being a P plater.

The issue lies with doing 140km/hr and more on 80km/hr unknown country roads and bullying other road users as they are getting in the way of our MX5s and our private time trial event the organizers seem to be running.

On the trip I went on I often was behind the leader and as soon as we got out onto open country roads it turned again into who can go the fastest for longest under the guise of Spirited driving.
I would then watch in horror as the rest overtook me in some of the most dangerous, stupid driving I have ever witnessed.

My brother who came on the run with me was on his green P's at the time and had no problem keeping up on actual windy mountain roads.
It was the bragging at the end of each section of country NSW roads about "ohhh I was hitting 180 along there" and "maybe you 2 need to grow 'some' to keep up" that pissed me off.
Especially after I had stopped to check on a car run clean off the road.

That's when we decided enough was enough.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[brendanstacey]

Ok, thanks to everyone for their supportive posts, but it seems somehow my message is being misinterpreted/lost through other discussions.

My P plate condition pretty much has no effect whatsoever. MX5's are nice to drive along twisty/country roads. Mostly all twisty/country roads have a speed limit of 80 or below. So whether I have a red, green, purple, pink or whatever licence will not effect how fast I can legally drive through these roads. The only thing I can think of being an issue is going on a brief stint at 110 down the highway to the next set of twisty roads (or Putty).

All I am saying is that people are driving way to fast over the speed limit during club runs and it that shouldn't happen on official club runs. So having a second slower leader for p plates is pretty much having a second slower leader for those who want to drive legally.

All I want is the rule that states the speed limits are to always be observed on club runs (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?3eb71o4xrypbt4d) - the one that everyone signs before a club drive, to be enforced more strictly. So that official club runs are legal and safe for everyone to run including many who dont run anymore because they dont feel comfortable from previous experiences.

[Okibi]

Cool link, "Act in a courteous manner towards ALL other road users" I guess if they updated it to "Act in a courteous manner towards ALL road users" then you might have had a better day.

Regarding flashing your headlights in NSW ..
"Use high-beam on oncoming vehicle less than 200 metres” is a $88 fine and one demerit point.
Flashing your headlights “not as prescribed” is $88 but no points.

Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

While on club runs just be courteous to EVERYONE, drive respecting the road conditions and rules.

[hks_kansei]

While on club runs just be courteous to EVERYONE, drive respecting the road conditions and rules.

The problem is that some consider courtesy is "well I didn't ram them"


It's as simple as stating beforehand "road laws are to be followed, anybody breaking those laws will be asked to leave"

If a club of any form wants to have a run with illegal activities then perhaps they need to reconsider if they want to have CAMS involved at all? (ie: setup a separate non-cams affiliated club)
Personally, I think the second option is irresponsible and the first should apply, but if they insist on having fast runs on public roads that's the only option.

[deviant]

Do any of the people that go on these runs and really get up it spend much time on track?

I find that the more time I spend on track the less interest I have in driving hard on the road.

[Magpie]

I find that the more time I spend on track the less interest I have in driving hard on the road.