Whoops!

[davekmoore]

Any of the ms2 or ms3 ECUs have CLT or IAT temp retard, which might have helped. I guess it depends on what you think caused it. Knock detection is a std feature too, so that's another that might have helped when det was too much!

G

The std knock detection can't have been working. Or was it merely detecting the knocking and doing nothing about it? Or was the Haltech stopping it doing its job? 'Cos if the Haltech can't pull timing and/or boost to avoid knocking then I may as well bin it.

A bad batch of fuel has been suggested by the way. I have a fuel can containing only 98 from the pump that topped up the car tank. Should I get the fuel tested to avoid potential problems when the thing's running again?

[gslender]

Any of the ms2 or ms3 ECUs have CLT or IAT temp retard, which might have helped. I guess it depends on what you think caused it. Knock detection is a std feature too, so that's another that might have helped when det was too much!

G

The std knock detection can't have been working. Or was it merely detecting the knocking and doing nothing about it? Or was the Haltech stopping it doing its job? 'Cos if the Haltech can't pull timing and/or boost to avoid knocking then I may as well bin it.

A bad batch of fuel has been suggested by the way. I have a fuel can containing only 98 from the pump that topped up the car tank. Should I get the fuel tested to avoid potential problems when the thing's running again?

Was the Haltech configured along with the stock ECU? Eg. piggy back, In which case, it is possible the Haltech didn't even know about the knock.

You'd need to confirm the ecu tune to really know. Can you dump the configuration from the ecu?

Also, another thing about the Megasquirt family is that I can log my track runs to a std mobile phone, so I can get a log of everything that happens. The MS3 had 4G SD card so you can log all the time, for days!

A log of the event would have been good.

G

[davekmoore]

Haltech Interceptor piggy back.

The forum doesn't allow me to add the map as it's a .imp file.

[gslender]

Haltech Interceptor piggy back.

The forum doesn't allow me to add the map as it's a .imp file.

I'd bet the piggy back is the problem. Plus the ecu might not be able to deal with retard for when intake or CLT temps rise.

Whilst not the key issue, a better ecu might have at least saved the engine.

G

[davekmoore]

Haltech Interceptor piggy back.

The forum doesn't allow me to add the map as it's a .imp file.

I'd bet the piggy back is the problem. Plus the ecu might not be able to deal with retard for when intake or CLT temps rise.

Whilst not the key issue, a better ecu might have at least saved the engine.

G

gslender sells ECUs and suggests I do need a better ECU.

Nitro Dann doesn't sell ECUs and says the existing Haltech is ok. Any third opinions out there?

[NitroDann]

Let me clarify then, what Grant says is correct, a properly setup late model MS would have been able to pull timing properly without you even noticing, and if the knock became great could have warned you.

However this is only if the tuner sets it up properly.

If the tuner used det cans, and tested your car with some heat soak, he could have also avoided this, however the better ECU along with a thorough tuner is the best option.

At the very least with a MS and the exact same tune the MS would have pulled SOME timing automatically if heat was a factor.

Turbo 4 cylinder F1 cars were tuned by swapping resistors with a soldering iron, you dont NEED a modern ecu....... you follow me Im sure.

Dann

[davekmoore]

Thanks Dann.

No further 3rd opinions needed thanks.

So based on what's on the car now:

Mazdaspeed AEM air intake, Cooling Pro intercooler, 2.5 inch SP Motorsports exhaust, Denso 440cc injectors, GFB recirculation valve, BEGi TB inlet, Haltech boost solenoid + Interceptor, OG 02 Clamp, oil cooler and oil filter relocation kit.

and assuming at least the block and sump are junked, suggestions are invited from forumites for bits to buy to mend it and what additional bits should be thrown into the mix to improve it?

I'll start with :

1. Replace oil cooler as there could be any kind of debris in there.
2. Replace original standard 127,000km clutch (with the same thing??).
3. Replace original 9 year old radiator.
4. Get some proper gauges.
5.

[NitroDann]

I would have a tuner setup the AIT sensor to pull timing if it can.

Id have him set up det sensing on it and at LEAST a light, if not pulling timing.

Id have him run the car up the dyno at full throttle and then use the dyno to pull the rpm back down with the car at full throttle and listen for det as the cylinders and exhaust gets super hot.

If those things arent possible, consider a better tuner/ecu.

of course you can just use a much more conservative timing map all around, but you will sacrifice torque and economy.

Dann

[Russellb]

Dont be surprised when you pull the engine apart and find THIS

[gslender]

gslender sells ECUs and suggests I do need a better ECU.

That's not quite true - I offer a service to help people build DIY kits that you can also buy online if you wish.

I was merely pointing out that the existing ECU/piggyback tune was probably not the safest nor most capable way to manage the engine. Whilst not 100% responsible for the problem, if you wish to run 16psi and push the engine, unless you like rebuilding them, you need the ECU to help manage and protect it. It isn't a silver bullet and won't stop critical failures (like loss of oil) but it can detect issues and take action immediately to save and protect it - sometimes this can result in much less damage that pays for itself fairly quickly.

I wouldn't recommend you buy a MS2 or MS3 and assume it will automatically protect better with a better tune, but I do know it has the needed features to retard the spark that might have resulted in a different outcome. Dann is correct in that a proper and tested tune would be the best, but when things go wrong (like intake temps rising too much) then the engine computer is there to protect and save the engine.

G

[NitroDann]

A base map for an MS3 will include tried and tested ignition retard based on both coolant temp and intake air temp, therefor, even with the same shitty fuel and ignition map an MS3 might have saved it completely (id say probably would have).

This is just because the base maps evolve with knowledge almost live, because of the dedicated MS-MX5 track crew and their amazing dedication to learning for themselves.

In other words, if you buy an MS3, insert the current base map and then tune idle, fuel and ignition, in the exact same way your old ecu was, the MS will already have a proper working Air intake temp, and coolant temp spark retard curve setup.

Dann

[davekmoore]

Dont be surprised when you pull the engine apart and find THIS

Yup, expecting that, especially the 4th pic.

[davekmoore]

1. Replace oil cooler as there could be any kind of debris in there.
2. Replace original standard 127,000km clutch (with the same thing??).
3. Replace original 9 year old radiator.
4. Get some proper gauges.
5. MS2
6. Eagle rods
7.

C'mon, someone add 7 etc.

[NitroDann]

Ok ok.. If i have to.


7-


Dann

[davekmoore]

How much to drop it in Dann?