Club Runs and Excessive Speeding

[brendanstacey]

First off, I’m not out for attention seeking, but what happened on Sunday deserves its own thread IMO.

This is also not a personal attack on anyone from the run, but what happened. Everyone seemed to be nice and friendly and easy to talk with.

I attended my first club run on Sunday being a breakfast club run down south to Berry. Although I have dríven many of the ‘MX5 roads’ before such as Putty, Royal National Park etc.

The entire run was taken at excessive speeds averaging 30/40 km/h over the speed limit.

During my first run I went out towards the rear of the pack and was quickly overtaken by everyone on the highway. I am on red p’s so am restricted to 90km/h and the limit was 100km/h so though nothing of it.

I then arrived at the first checkpoint after being left in the distance by the pack except for a (possibly) black MX5 with a body kit, who was obviously waiting behind me in case I got lost – thank you for that!

I then spoke to a couple of people about how I would lose my licence if I was caught speeding due to my p plates. The response I got was ‘you will only lose it if you get caught’. This pretty much showed the attitude of pretty much all or most of the drivers at the run. I was then asked if my mum, who was with me in the passenger seat, was driving. Even if intended as a joke, this again shows the attitude and culture of pretty much everyone on the run.

It was then suggested that I was moved into the middle of the pack so I could drive ‘faster’ and be at less risk of getting caught than driving by myself 20 mins behind. So I had to drive like a maniac just to keep up in the pack with average speeds similar to that of a track day at Wakefield. I honestly felt safer at a track day at Wakefield than here!

This is ludicrous, if you want to speed by all means take your car to the track and flog the sh*t out of it. Do not do it on public roads. I personally bought by mx5 with the main reason being I could take it to track days. So it is not as though am scared of going fast. I do however have an issue against excessive speeding on public roads - not accidently or intentionally going 10/20 km/h over the speed limit down the Hume Highway, but intentional going at 120km/h down a 60 or 80 zone.

This kind of run IMO is not acceptable to be associated with a car club, if you want to speed do it by yourself or go with a group not under a car club banner so when you all get caught and lose your licences the car club and its image is not affected. I don’t care if this is going to stop you going fast and having fun on club runs, you can go and do it by yourself or with a group not under an official club run.

I honestly thought that these runs were ‘legal’. Looking at Neil HRs videos that he posted it actually looked like an actual spirited drive where no laws were broken but corners were taken (mostly) at the speed limit and much fun was had. Even if speeds limits are exceeded by 10/20km/h on occasion (which I would not do) licences would not be lost. I thought club runs were meant to be safe, legal and fun for all, not just speeding through the bush at 120 in 60 km/h zones.

Something needs to be done about this. The club should impose membership bans on excessive speeding on group runs. If not, then have two groups, like I think they had before, for people who do not wish to lose their licence.

Please tell me that other club runs are not like this? I was going to take my mum up to the Jenolan caves on a club run in a couple of weeks, but I don’t think she will want to ever step in my car again after last Sunday. Unless something is done about this, I will not be going on any other breakfast club runs or any club runs if they are all like this.

I am honestly disappointed that the run was like this as from the track days and other media it seemed that all club activities were safe and fun. Two things I did not experience last Sunday.

[NitroDann]

Thankyou for posting brenden.

Much appreciated.

I have tried to say this but dont have the patience to be eloquent about it.

Its the wrong side of the road blind corners by more mature members that scares the hell out of me. im not tryin gto be age-ist but the one run I went on it sure wasnt the P platers doing 160+ up the straights and taking blind corners on the wrong side. I won't go to another one.

Dann

[Suspense]

Good post Brendan.

[edited to a shorter form]
I lost my licence on a run about 18 months ago. It wasn't an official club run but the majority were club members and it was organised in the same way. I didn't feel comfortable going at the speeds that some were doing so I fell back from the group in front. Unfortunately for me that put me at the front of a secondary pack and therefore the first one that the HWP with his speed gun picked up as I put the foot down to catch up once we were on a clear straight.

The official club runs do vary. On balance though, it's just not worth it to me to be doing those speeds on public roads. I don't find it as enjoyable to be driving and wondering about "getting caught".

Like you, I plan to stick to track days for my kicks. $140 entry fee + petrol is a hell of a lot cheaper than a $750 fine and time in the sin bin.

[vrmmmpshhh]

find a better group of people who are like minded.. kikuchi, coreys and myself, here in SA are part of a cams affiliated car club that is extremely accommodating to all cars and levels of drivers. street cruises are more of a social thing where friendships are more important than who gets to the destination first. We have some insanely fast cars and fast drivers yet drive to the speed limit and still have fun. When we attend track events it's every man for himself and i'd put a machete through their tyres if i knew i would get away with it. There is no way i would expect someone on their P's to keep up with a group of guys who have a few track events up their sleeves. On the next event stick to what your capable with and don't let anyone dictate how you drive. I was unlucky and ended up around the start of a procession one time and managed to kiss the side of a mountain once... it costs me a bit and its a mistake i won't make again.

[NitroDann]

There is no way i would expect someone on their P's to keep up with a group of guys who have a few track events up their sleeves.

I dont want to speak for brenden, so Ill speak purely for myself.

This isnt the issue, infact it may come across slightly condescending (not to me I dont care).
I can do 150+ up a backroad straight like anyone else can, I regularly drive a 5 that can spin the tyres at those speeds, the issue is that its stupid to do it with 40 other cars all of which are tightly packed and expected to stay that way.

Then add the blind corners, wrong side of the road around them, and roads that not everyone knows and the fact that these runs are on sunday morning, when every other bloke is on the backroads on this sportsbike, bicycle, with his kids on holiday etc

Dann

[brendanstacey]

There is no way i would expect someone on their P's to keep up with a group of guys who have a few track events up their sleeves.

This is not the point - it doesnt matter how many track days you have up your sleeve you shouldnt be speeding excessivly on public roads even if your Lewis Hamilton etc.

And just because I am on my P's doesnt mean I cant keep up because I dont have multiple track days experience. I do have multiple track days experience and have been racing karts for years, I just dont run around public roads like a maniac because I can.

[doctor_bob]

Loads of exaggeration here regarding the actual speeds but you are welcome to voice your opinions and make some valid points.

Having said that nobody was holding a gun to your head to move to the middle of the pack, and there was a wait at every major turn to ensure nobody was left behind; you would have been fine going at your own pace.

I was then asked if my mum, who was with me in the passenger seat, was driving

That is in fact incorrect. I was standing next to the person who made the comment you are referring to, and they actually said something more along the lines of "So are you going to let your mum have a drive now?"; it was not an insult and you seem to have the message confused.

Guess I'll see you at the next trackday then

[Hjt]

Two things to point out: This forum isn't directly associated with the MX5 club of NSW. Although speeding does occur, as a club, they cannot enforce the limit, as it's a job of the law (Police). Banning people upon association with speeding or the style of driving would be pointless.

[brendanstacey]

doctor_bob: Maybe you are right about the comment - maybe not, as what I said is what I recall. The point I was trying to make is the acceptance of excessive speed being normal.

You are also right when noone was holding a gun to my head and maybe I shouldve stayed at back and held everyone up for an extra 30 mins. Not sure how that mightve ended up though.

One thing I am 100% sure of though - is that the speeds are not exaggerated and that official club runs should not be taken at those speeds.

[Regie]

I have organised and led a few of these spirited Breakfast Club runs

They are labelled as a spirited drive, and the cruiser runs are just what they are.. a cruisier run through some twisty roads

The Run Leader does not go more than 10kmph above the speed limit, It tends to become a cascade effect of the people behind speeding up/ slowing down, maximising the gap then going for a quick squirt to catch up to the car infront, that's where you get your quicker speeds

I have been on most of the Breakfast Club runs since ive been a member (2009) and have spent time in various positions in the pack. The speed limits vary a lot when you start moving down in the pack.

Having said that, I was working on the weekend and didn't attend the meet.

[hks_kansei]

Although speeding does occur, as a club, they cannot enforce the limit, as it's a job of the law (Police). Banning people upon association with speeding or the style of driving would be pointless.

Not sure about the NSW club, but the Vic one has a set of rules that members must abide by.
One of those is speeding etc that brings the club into disrepute, the Vic club has (had?) a provision that allowed them to tell people speeding to go home, and also to fine them $200.

I'd assume the NSW club has a similar thing.



So while it's the police force's job to catch them and fine them, that doesn't mean the club can't also enforce it's own rules.
(if the club organised meet at a car museum let's say, and a member started doing burnouts etc in the carpark would the club ask them to leave? or just say "oh it's the cops problem, let's just let him keep going")

[brendanstacey]

Two things to point out: This forum isn't directly associated with the MX5 club of NSW. Although speeding does occur, as a club, they cannot enforce the limit, as it's a job of the law (Police). Banning people upon association with speeding or the style of driving would be pointless.

Yes, but it was an official club run and many club officials are active on these forums.

Maybe you are right about banning people, but if the MX5 club want more people to do runs with them who dont like speeding, they need to have an option for those who want to run in a group of people, at safe, fun and legal speeds. Obviously I could do the run by myself at the back, but I could just go out and do that myself so what is the point of a club run then?

[brendanstacey]

I have organised and led a few of these spirited Breakfast Club runs

They are labelled as a spirited drive, and the cruiser runs are just what they are.. a cruisier run through some twisty roads

So does that mean that spirited drives imply going faster than the speed limit? I thought it meant going through corners fast and accelating quickly whilst being within the law?

The Run Leader does not go more than 10kmph above the speed limit, It tends to become a cascade effect of the people behind speeding up/ slowing down, maximising the gap then going for a quick squirt to catch up to the car infront, that's where you get your quicker speeds

I could see the front pack half the time when I was driving (down straights etc), I never slowed down below the speed limit and never caught the person infront of me.

I have been on most of the Breakfast Club runs since ive been a member (2009) and have spent time in various positions in the pack. The speed limits vary a lot when you start moving down in the pack.

Having said that, I was working on the weekend and didn't attend the meet.

[NitroDann]

Nothing I have said has been exaggerated at all.

On the run I went to I was one of the quicker drivers, but certaintly not the fastest and no way near the stupidest.

I moved myself into the front group, the groups had been intentionally split into a quicker and slower group, front was quicker.

I didnt see a lot of quick driving, mostly fast driving and recklessness.

For the record, the club can ban any members who break the law, of course they can and many clubs will hand in plate numbers upon banning.

Dann

[doctor_bob]

What's the old saying; "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks"



edit: Honestly though, you really should have spoken up about it more at the time if you were actually concerned about more than just losing your license as a P plater. That was the only thing you mentioned when we made that first stop and you voiced your concern about the pace yesterday morning; hence the advice was offered to stick to the middle of the pack. Seems a little political to wait until afterwards and post a long rant without actually discussing anything with the people you take exception to.

These things are much better discussed in person than online where everything is blown out of proportion and everyone can take as much offense as they want without knowing what the other person is really trying to say... </2c>