New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

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toppertee
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby toppertee » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:12 pm

zero00 wrote:Good luck Nigel, nice to see someone put their thoughts out there to get a reaction one way or the other

Door-to door racing isn't for me whereas 'track days' are fine - like to see a 'hands up' on Monday 21st just for you to get a feeling for it

Let's face it, it's the next level up, NO WAY would the average peddler be able to get his/her NB around like the Ash Miller MX5 in 2F

Of course, these are MY opinions, nice to see the responses to date :wink:


Yes Grant and I are hopeful, but talk is cheap we need people to commit. We need at least twenty people to full the grid. It will take a lot of money and commitment to make it happen.
It would be great if we could get a feeling at the lakeside mx5 track day, if people would be keen on having a go.
We would just love to see some of the great-modified mx5s and people out there living the dream.

I'm still running and will be running, in the PSCRAQ and people like Ash Miller give me the shits with all there talent. :mrgreen:

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby toppertee » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:30 pm

What are the things that require investment in terms of getting a new series off the ground??
what would cost $20k?
Web site, Insurance, cost of booking the track. etc... Someone has to pay first....I'm happy to do it.


I presume his series is to be aimed at the budget concious? Would you need to set up an initial fund as opposed to stumping up all the $ yourself
I'll send you my paypal account :mrgreen:

At the end of the day how you set the rules shold encourage close racing with similar cars, and may the best driver win.
I like the idea of a power to weight ratio as a starting point.
That way driving and chassis set up is the key.

Not sure how far you would go, control tyres etc etc?
If that what people want, thats what we will do. Have you got any ideas?

I have registered with the PSCRAQ series this year, it will be my first go at racing, so dont have any bias from what pscraq does or does not do as far as rules etc.
I'm running in PSRAQ this year as well and next year I hope, really great bunch of guys, but this has nothing to do with PSRAQ, we are not aiming at PSRAQ. I think people think PSRAQ and the think mx5. This is for people with mx5 that don't fit in PSRAQ, we can't and never will be a PSRAQ that is a CAMS 2f 2b class. We want this to be grass routes

I just want to turn up have close racing, with good people.[/quote]
Game on! I see you on the grid, looking forward to it.

Look we just want to see if people are keen. If there not all good.

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby gslender » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:35 pm

ansellpa wrote:I just want to turn up have close racing, with good people.


That's got to be one of our key tenets!

G
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby toppertee » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:49 pm

That's got to be one of our key tenets!
People have beliefs or principles that they hold as true, often without proof. When a group holds these beliefs, they are known as tenets–basic, fundamental principles that are the foundations for all aspects of society. I had to use wiki :D

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby MrsB » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:56 pm

lightyear wrote:I would love to do it, but too far away. So I was thinking if you could share your ideas and all the associated details. We could run the exact same series here in vic, with the same rules. That way maybe once or twice a year there could be some interstate competition. I love the idea of using the American points system for mods. Makes sense to me.

Adam has been trying to get something very similar happening in Victoria with the MX5 Challenge but it seems the only ones supporting it are the NSW guys and girls and there really hasn't been a lot of interest in racing from the MX5 Club motor sport crew! I suggest you talk to Adam if you're interested. We also have a state racing series which MX5's are eligible for and if you want to mix it with the interstate guys you have the MX5 Challenge series at Wakefield, the Winton & Wakefield 300's or the PSCRAA enduros. There is plenty of racing in Vic it just needs some more Victorian competitors.

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby beavis » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:27 pm

As attractive as it is, my issue with 'real racing' is the cost and risk.
It costs more to compete and there is a much greater chance of damage or accident given it is wheel to wheel type stuff.

Would be nice if there was a time attack type competition that didn't have stupidly written rules and classes like many clubs seem to have.
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby gslender » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:11 am

beavis wrote:Would be nice if there was a time attack type competition that didn't have stupidly written rules and classes like many clubs seem to have.


So like what?

G
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby adidistyle » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:16 pm

I too like the sound of this.
A bit less restrictive than track days but not win-at-any-cost door to door racing.
I would see myself running nearer stock except maybe wheels,tyres, brakes and safety gear. That would keep the budget in check, keep the financial loss risk manageable, curb the competiveness, and maximise the learning experience.
But ultimately, for me, it would come down to cost. It is something I might splurge on for a year, maybe two, as I doing now.
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby ja9 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:06 am

Correct me if I've misunderstood the concept: Are you saying based on the points system that you will be applying to the cars, a competitor can win the race even though they don't cross the line first.
I would like to see something like that put in place for a number of reasons:
1. Personally I don't have the budget to win a race outright (disregard talent for the moment) and I'd like to think that I could receive a trophy/podium with my standard car based on my driving ability. Isn't that what racing (back when) was initially about, the best driver and not the best/fastest car. [the second best driver has a lot to answer for in creating such an expensive sport]

2. If anyone knows what "bracket racing" at the drags is about then you'll better understand where I'm going with this. A standard car can win the event over a car which is say 10 seconds faster down the quarter mile. I nearly did first time I ever raced my Escort an had no idea what I was doing. Still came away with a podium and some cash. I was so chuffed I have never forgotten the experience and that was some 25 years ago.

So to clarify what I'm trying to say a bit more:
A standard car rocks up to race - zero points (car 1)
A standard car with semi slicks - 10 points (car 2)
A standard car with semi slicks and after market exhaust 15 points (car 3)

Lets race with these 3 cars:
If the drivers were of equal talent then the order should be cars 3,2,1.
If the driver of car 1 has the most talent but is poor and can't afford any modification to his car then he should come away with the win. How the organises decide on the points system to allow car 1 to win will take a little more thought.

Regards - John
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby tbro » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 pm

I like the idea, as I think that the CAMS ways can be too restrictive or not enforced enough.

When you have 2f cars punching out 220+ rwhp in a NA motor, then the dollars are taking over.

So what happens is that those who want to have fun walk away from the class and either do other types of racing or say fu78 it and park the car.

Ok, I'm lucky and so is Crewman in that our cars are road registered so its no biggy but if it a straight racer?????????????

What's worrying me with some comments here are that people think this will be gentleman racing, hate to burst your bubble but you gotta be kidding, 20+ racers with
most having NO experience let loose at QR or GOD forbid Lakeside is asking for trouble. The series would need a drivers standards enforcer,re Doug, drivers would need to do "x" amount of Topgear sprints before being allowed anywhere near a race meet.

Ok, so before you can do a topgear event your car needs few things, roll cage that is tall enough to clear your noggin $800, a race seat $400, a 6 point harness$250, a ignition cutout $200 fitted, triangles $25, rain lamp fitted $40, fire extinguisher $50, tail shaft loop $40,bonnet pins $80, tow hooks $100, good brakes which can be 1.8 na units but you need to spend good money on pads $450, fluid $80, hoses and proportion valve $400, r spec tyres $1000, decent rims $800 and proper suspension $2000. The car will need to have 100mm clearance, it is checked!!!!!! plus other odds and sods $250and AASA logbook. Now "your" gear will be, a real race suit min twin layer, with fireproof underwear, bala, socks and race shoes, gloves helmet, Bag to cart all in, tape tyre gauges pyro torque wrench spare parts including wheel nuts, cable ties and a big hat!!!!$2000

So add all that up, and doesn't matter how you do it it is bloody expensive sport but a lot of fun.AND if you can't spanner it yourself add another $5000, to set up the car and prep for meets being thankful its only a glorified 323 and not a GT3. As a guide what racing can cost, a small team with 2 Porsches 2011 Gt3, budget $150,000 WITHOUT BODY WORK :shock: :shock: per car.

So before you put up your hand and risk someone else's money think about whats at risk, you and your car, remember that your super, life and income insurance don't cover you when your on the track, don't rely on AASA insurance, because like all insurances it's full of outs for the insurance co.

After all that if your gunna do it and I have and probably will do so again, do it properly!!!! don't listen to experts who tell you can take short cuts cause they have, its your life and more importantly someone else's that your risking. So have FUN!!!!!!!

Terry
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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby NitroDann » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:12 pm

You are exaggerating prices but point taken.

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby mazmad » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:32 pm

Salient points Terry, nicely done.

Except for the bit where I am reminded what it has cost me to date..... :?

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby MattR » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:59 pm

NitroDann wrote:You are exaggerating prices but point taken.

Dann


Ahh yeah no. Once you got the car prepped properly and without taking short cuts Tbro's budget would be about right. You may get away with a little cheaper but not much.

My last year of racing was a budget of $10k to get a built car back to running properly, ie engine rebuild and full front to rear check of the car that also ended up incuding new radiator some other electrical work, new fuel system (surge tank and pump) plus a refresh of generally expendable fluids and rebuild of calipers and a rejig of some mounts.

For each race meeting I budgeted $1000 to cover everything including entry fees, $200 odd per meeting, fuel, transport of race car, expendables for the meeting like oil every second meeting, 2nd hand tyres (slicks) every second meeting, having all the extras needed just in case, ie brake fluid, oil, coolant and spare parts like pads, spark plugs and so on. I was lucky I had a reasonable stock of spares gathered over 15 years of ownership of the car. And that was to run as one of the slower 2B cars in Qld, however it was quick for a 40 year old car and great fun to drive.

The new car will be a be a bit cheaper to maintain as parts such as panels and mechanicals are a lot more cheaper and easier to get for a S14 than a Z, but the budget is still looking at around $1000 a meeting for how I want to race. It could be done cheaper, but for the event budget maybe only knock a few hundred off to around $500-600 if you really want to run on shoe string and actually record everything spent to go racing.

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby gslender » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:14 pm

tbro wrote:I like the idea, as I think that the CAMS ways can be too restrictive or not enforced enough.

When you have 2f cars punching out 220+ rwhp in a NA motor, then the dollars are taking over.

So what happens is that those who want to have fun walk away from the class and either do other types of racing or say fu78 it and park the car.

Ok, I'm lucky and so is Crewman in that our cars are road registered so its no biggy but if it a straight racer?????????????

What's worrying me with some comments here are that people think this will be gentleman racing, hate to burst your bubble but you gotta be kidding, 20+ racers with
most having NO experience let loose at QR or GOD forbid Lakeside is asking for trouble. The series would need a drivers standards enforcer,re Doug, drivers would need to do "x" amount of Topgear sprints before being allowed anywhere near a race meet.

Ok, so before you can do a topgear event your car needs few things, roll cage that is tall enough to clear your noggin $800, a race seat $400, a 6 point harness$250, a ignition cutout $200 fitted, triangles $25, rain lamp fitted $40, fire extinguisher $50, tail shaft loop $40,bonnet pins $80, tow hooks $100, good brakes which can be 1.8 na units but you need to spend good money on pads $450, fluid $80, hoses and proportion valve $400, r spec tyres $1000, decent rims $800 and proper suspension $2000. The car will need to have 100mm clearance, it is checked!!!!!! plus other odds and sods $250and AASA logbook. Now "your" gear will be, a real race suit min twin layer, with fireproof underwear, bala, socks and race shoes, gloves helmet, Bag to cart all in, tape tyre gauges pyro torque wrench spare parts including wheel nuts, cable ties and a big hat!!!!$2000

So add all that up, and doesn't matter how you do it it is bloody expensive sport but a lot of fun.AND if you can't spanner it yourself add another $5000, to set up the car and prep for meets being thankful its only a glorified 323 and not a GT3. As a guide what racing can cost, a small team with 2 Porsches 2011 Gt3, budget $150,000 WITHOUT BODY WORK :shock: :shock: per car.

So before you put up your hand and risk someone else's money think about whats at risk, you and your car, remember that your super, life and income insurance don't cover you when your on the track, don't rely on AASA insurance, because like all insurances it's full of outs for the insurance co.

After all that if your gunna do it and I have and probably will do so again, do it properly!!!! don't listen to experts who tell you can take short cuts cause they have, its your life and more importantly someone else's that your risking. So have FUN!!!!!!!

Terry


There are a few items in there that are purely optional, and yes if safety/risk is your biggest concern than obviously they are mandatory, but then again, why do the sport at all if that's your primary concern?

How many of those items (like a tail shaft loop) is mandatory by the track body / AASA vs the organisers? I struggle to see how that is really going to be the key safety issue on the track when driving a convertible car!?

Those other items like a pyro tyre gauge, or rims etc are really not mandatory are they?....c'mon be reasonable!

But I would agree that a few items will be necessary to enter, but we wish to keep it simple and affordable, but without making it outright dangerous.

G
MX5 91 NA6 LE completely stock and loving it!
MX5 92 NA8/ITBs Silver "aka Track Beeotch"

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Re: New series MX5 Racing in brisbane

Postby gslender » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:17 pm

j.a#9 wrote:Correct me if I've misunderstood the concept: Are you saying based on the points system that you will be applying to the cars, a competitor can win the race even though they don't cross the line first.
I would like to see something like that put in place for a number of reasons:
1. Personally I don't have the budget to win a race outright (disregard talent for the moment) and I'd like to think that I could receive a trophy/podium with my standard car based on my driving ability. Isn't that what racing (back when) was initially about, the best driver and not the best/fastest car. [the second best driver has a lot to answer for in creating such an expensive sport]

2. If anyone knows what "bracket racing" at the drags is about then you'll better understand where I'm going with this. A standard car can win the event over a car which is say 10 seconds faster down the quarter mile. I nearly did first time I ever raced my Escort an had no idea what I was doing. Still came away with a podium and some cash. I was so chuffed I have never forgotten the experience and that was some 25 years ago.

So to clarify what I'm trying to say a bit more:
A standard car rocks up to race - zero points (car 1)
A standard car with semi slicks - 10 points (car 2)
A standard car with semi slicks and after market exhaust 15 points (car 3)

Lets race with these 3 cars:
If the drivers were of equal talent then the order should be cars 3,2,1.
If the driver of car 1 has the most talent but is poor and can't afford any modification to his car then he should come away with the win. How the organises decide on the points system to allow car 1 to win will take a little more thought.

Regards - John


That's pretty close to it!

We've yet to confirm and lock down the rules, but you've got the spirit correct!

G
MX5 91 NA6 LE completely stock and loving it!
MX5 92 NA8/ITBs Silver "aka Track Beeotch"


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