Rear subframe brace - NA

[NitroDann]

You have super stiff thin material, the frame rails. You are turning them from a tube into sandwich construction.

Dann

[sailaholic]

Yes, but you are adding minimal bending stiffness to the sandwich due to the outer stiff materials already being there.

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[NitroDann]

Yeah I know, I never said it was a good idea, just that in rally, it has been done, its a good way to bend rules (ok, its cheating ).

If you want a super stiff car get a full cage, or use select few well designed braces.

Dann

[ja9]

Dann: So to simplify things what you're saying is that it can't hurt. Won't be as stiff as a full roll cage but has to be better than "no meat in the sandwich".

Sailaholic: Are you saying that it won't make any difference at all and therefore a waste of time and effort.

[NitroDann]

Im saying that If I were racing a prep'd autocross car Id have no braces cos the wieght just doesnt pay off.

If I were after a really great to drive daily/weekend warrior I personally would weld some choice bars and the frame, but if I wanted a bolt on solution Id be looking at Frog arms, door bars and no a lot else, because these are the only 2 places you can bolt in a HUGE structural brace in a place where the car actually flexes in a way that can be felt and that will help keep the wheel alignment good when cornering.

Dann

[sailaholic]

Look I've fitted a complete fm kit and didn't notice a big difference..... So if really don't think it would add anything except maybe stop the rails crushing easily.

Have you checked the frame rails from Omgpham.com ? They are very similar to fm but a lot cheaper.

So I guess would I do it? no
Would I fit a butterfly brace again? No
Would I fit frame rails... Yes but that's for protection of the existing as much as anything.

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[jordy94]

I ran FM's frame rails without a butterfly brace, when i installed the BB, the amount of stiffness it produced does not justify it's price...

[NitroDann]

And 80% of that stiffness is probably in your head.

Dann

[jordy94]

And 80% of that stiffness is probably in your head.

Dann

Exactly. I initially thought it made the car stiffer and made it handle better, but i soon realised it handles exactly the same.

[Earlybird]

Update time:

I ended up getting a Thompson front lower control arm brace from USA and frame rails from OMGPHAM (great price and service deserves a free plug). Still chasing a rear subframe brace.

The frame rails look amazing and even if they don't make a massive difference to the torsional strength of the body they will protect my existing rails from being further flogged to death.

[NitroDann]

I'm going to be that guy and point out that you sound like every other bloke trying to justify a purchase that may not have any actual benefits.

Dann

[Earlybird]

I'm going to be that guy and point out that you sound like every other bloke trying to justify a purchase that may not have any actual benefits.

Dann

Sigh....Why does every forum have one?

Should I really have to be that guy who points out that sometimes "opinions" are better off not being said or if you don't have something positive to add, don't add anything at all?

As I mentioned in my first post, my NA is a very early one which has no additional bracing whatsoever. All I wanted was feedback on 2 types of bolt on braces, preferably from those who actually had first hand experience. I didn't mention I wanted to race my car, weld roll bars into it or make it stiffer than some horny old dude who's taken a double dose of viagra.

It's clear what your view is on bolt on bracing as we have all seen it a number of times (and you're entitled to it), however blind Freddy can see that there must be some value in it, otherwise Mazda wouldn't have bothered adding the additional bracing in later models and aftermarket companies wouldn't have been producing it for the last 20 years!

Does the bolt in bracing make the car totally different to drive? Probably not, but at least my car will be closer to the spec of a later model one. More importantly, I get to enjoy tinkering with my car and once the job is done, I can proudly say I was able to do that myself.

There's a plethora of things on here that other guys and gals like to do to their MX5 that doesn't really inspire me or I may or may not think its a waste of time, money or effort. Take for instance those who remove things to make their car lighter, should they lose weight as well? Are they right or wrong, do they need to justify what they are doing actually does anything at all? Who really cares, they get enjoyment from it and believe they get a benefit from it.

I have no doubt that you are knowledgeable in the world of MX5's, expression of opinion however.......

Hereith endith my sermon and this thread, as I have got what I wanted.

Please feel free to have the last say though

[vrmmmpshhh]

Just to add fuel to the fire.. I have front and rear bracing from skreem?? The car had less shake going over small bumps but the rear bracing was stupidly low and would catch on everything so I removed it.

[jordy94]

If I were after a really great to drive daily/weekend warrior I personally would weld some choice bars and the frame, but if I wanted a bolt on solution Id be looking at Frog arms, door bars and no a lot else, because these are the only 2 places you can bolt in a HUGE structural brace in a place where the car actually flexes in a way that can be felt and that will help keep the wheel alignment good when cornering.

Dann

Dann, which door bars are you talking about? I'm thinking about getting some. Also, are you still going to make and sell your Frog arms? I'm definitely keen for some.

Cheers

[Hjt]

I run a AGI half cage consisting of door bars, a full butterfly brace w/ rail from Flyin Miata, boss frog arms and a 3 point front tower brace.

The main area I noticed a difference was the door bars and the frog arms as mentioned above by Dann.

The least is the underbody bracing. It seems to be a placebo effect.

The like my chassis stiff