A wee problem or two. Think they might be related?

[eDrive.ie]

Hi All, new to the site. Took me ages to register though. The confirmation questions are tough to know the answer to unless you're already a member of the Western Australia MX5 Owners club. I persevered though as there's some great info and tutorials here. Defo the best MX5 site I've come across.

I have a problem or two with my 1998 MkII 1.8 MX5.
1. I'm not sure what model it is. I think it's a 1.8 SR? but not sure. It's a Japanese import, MkII 1.8, has 6 gears, electric windows, airbags, CD player and Bose speakers. I'm not sure if it's an NB8B or what.

Problem number 2 is that someone tried to break into it, slashed the roof and basically it got soaked. I did a terrible repair, had it laid up for about a year while our newborn took up most of my time and I didn't realise that it was still leaking, so it's been soaked again over a long period of time.

The relatively new battery in it was completely dead. An ambulance crew couldn't revive it, so I put in a new battery, cleaned the spark plugs and it started first time. Wahay!!
Then after 20 mins it just suddenly stalled and won't start. It'll turn over alright, but the car won't come to life. It's not receiving fuel even though it has petrol in it. I thought that it may be te fuel pump, but given that other electrics are failing, I'm figuring that they may all be related.

Previously I had noticed that the headlights only work on full beam, the bulbs are fine. Low beam doesn't come on at all, main beam only brings on the low beam, but full beam works normally.
Also the passenger electric window had stopped working and now the drivers window isn't working either.
If I put the key into the ignition and turn, there used to be all the usual lights coming on the dash for oil, battery, break etc but now only the break light comes on.
I've checked all the fuses in the cabin and they're fine. I'm drying it out at the moment and it's nearly there.

I was wondering if anyone would have some good info on what the probable causes and redemies are and maybe a checklist of what to check for?
It struggled through the emissions test in it's last NCT test two years ago and the examiner said he felt maybe there was a bad earth somewhere.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Kev

[nbse2]

check your fuses.

[93_Clubman]

As a 1998 MX5 it's an NB8 (1998-2005), which we commonly refer to as an NB8A (1998-2000). If the 6 speed GB was factory fitted then it sounds like a special/ limited edition as 6 speed GB wasn't fitted across the range until NB8B (2000-2002).

Given your location is Ireland, & it sounds like the car sat for a year slowly filling with water, & you say there appears to be electrical issues, it would be worth checking over the entire electrical system, i.e. fuses (in cabin & in engine bay), earth connections (in cabin & in engine bay), battery connections, engine control unit (ECU), & relays, as the sound deadening material under the carpet acts like a wick & retains all that moisture. So, if you haven't already pull out all the carpet & sound deadening material to allow it to dry out. ECU is either located in the RHD passenger foot well or in some models/ countries behind the RHD passenger seat.

Also, given the above conditions & that you say fuel is not getting through, it's possible that the external fuel filter needs replacing, as well as the internal (to fuel tank) fuel pump sock filter. Personally, even if I wasn't changing the fuel pump filter, I'd still want to check what the inside of the tank with all that old fuel looked like given conditions. Good luck!

[bruce]

I concur. There is moisture in your electricals and will be a pain to sort out. Treat it like a flood damaged car. I would sell it, as it may never be right.

[hks_kansei]

As a 1998 MX5 it's an NB8 (1998-2005), which we commonly refer to as an NB8A (1998-2000). If the 6 speed GB was factory fitted then it sounds like a special/ limited edition as 6 speed GB wasn't fitted across the range until NB8B (2000-2002).

It's probably a Japanese RS model.

If so, the gauge cluster should have red needles instead of the normal white, the tacho should redline at 6500rpm instead of 6000rpm, and the needles for tacho and speedo should rest at 6pm when the car is off.
The tacho will also have "6 speed" written on it in red.

[eDrive.ie]

hks_kansei, yes it is a Jap model. The gauge cluster does have red needles instead of the normal white, the tacho redlines at 7500rpm, not 6500rpm,
The tacho has "6 speed" written on it in red. It has a Bose CD player and electric mirrors, electric windows too. I was told it was an RS model when I bought it, but the Irish logbook just says "MX5" It may have been dumbed down a little by the importer to reduce the Import Duty payable. Thanks for that, so basically it's an NB8A 1.8 6 speed RS?

[eDrive.ie]

Thanks 93_Clubman/bruce/nbse2. Is the ECU ("is either located in the RHD passenger foot well or in some models/ countries behind the RHD passenger seat") separate from the fuse box under the steering column? Incidentally, how do I check the ECU? If it's wet, dry it? If it's dry, bin it or what?

The cabin fuses are all fine, they're a silver metal, but the fuses or relays/assys in the engine bay are copper and some of them have green verdigris on them. Are they fixable with a rub and WD40 do you think? Or is it a case of replacing them? I haven't taken the carpet and noise dampers out, but I'll do that this weekend. It's itting in the driveway so I've been dealing with a complaining wife and trying to make as little mess/fuss as possible, but I'll bite the bullet and face the wrath tomorrow!

I know where the internal fuel filter is (under the parcel shelf) but where is the external fuel filter?

[93_Clubman]

Is the ECU ("is either located in the RHD passenger foot well or in some models/ countries behind the RHD passenger seat") separate from the fuse box under the steering column? Incidentally, how do I check the ECU? If it's wet, dry it? If it's dry, bin it or what?

...the fuses or relays/assys in the engine bay are copper and some of them have green verdigris on them. Are they fixable with a rub and WD40 do you think? Or is it a case of replacing them?

I know where the internal fuel filter is (under the parcel shelf) but where is the external fuel filter?

ECU is completely separate from the fuse box under the steering column.
Disconnect the battery, remove ECU, & open ECU up to inspect the printed circuit board (PCB) & its components. Ensure it is dry, clean, & there is no discolouration of the PCB, & no bubbling or burn marks on PCB. If wet see hint links below.
Re engine bay fuse box & relays, you could try cleaning them, but it's a bit like the ECU, you probably won't really know how their going to respond until you clean it all up & attempt to drive it.
External fuel filter in under the vehicle just behind the driver in a RHD MX5.

As Bruce mentioned above you probably need to treat this car as flood effected, which are often repairable write-offs for insurance purposes here in Australia at least - the term certainly also came to mind. I recall two flood effected NB8B (one standard & one SP) whose ECUs got wet:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=46348
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=46386
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=46427
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=51079

Some hints dealing with flood effected cars:
http://www.mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtop ... 18&t=28787
http://www.mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtop ... 85&start=0

[eDrive.ie]

Thanks a lot for the info guys.
I've taken the ECU out and it looks fine. No water damage signs on it, no rust, no green verdigris, bubbles or flaking but one of the 3 connector blocks on the end of the wiring loom that connects into the ECU is showing definite signs of verdigris.
Can I just pull all the individual wires out (there are around 20 wires) that connect into the green connecting block? Or do I need to cut them and buy a new block?
I'm hoping that I can pull these wires out, cut them and crimp them and slot them back into their proper place?
Or are these wires permanently attached to that block and must be cut? Or does the entire wiring loom need replacing?
Also, the drain plugs that I've seen people talking about, are they a solid circle about 2 inches across in the floor? How do you open these? Do you have to punch through them with a hammer or something? That seems pretty severe if so.

[93_Clubman]

Can I just pull all the individual wires out (there are around 20 wires) that connect into the green connecting block? Or do I need to cut them and buy a new block?
I'm hoping that I can pull these wires out, cut them and crimp them and slot them back into their proper place? Or are these wires permanently attached to that block and must be cut?

The wires in the NA loom ECU block, at least, move back & forth in the block. They appear as usual to be held in by a tongue of metal on each individual metal electrical connector, so you need to insert a very very fine screw driver or piece of wire into the plastic block to flatten the tongue which will then allow you to withdraw each metal connector from the plastic block.

Or does the entire wiring loom need replacing?

There's a reason that flood effected cars are often repairable write-offs, in Australia at least, & that's because of the potential amount of labour & parts, & therefore cost involved in fixing them properly. As you're discovering there's more & more of your car's electrical system that's been effected - what we're suggesting is the minimal labour & cost approach, which may not work, but at least won't cost you thousands to find out that it doesn't work. So, does the entire loom & what hangs off it need replacing? That depends - we can't see how bad it is, but it certainly doesn't sound good. But if you're prepared to put in a lot of time sealing it up, removing everything, cleaning & drying, then you might get it sorted. Alternatively, you can spend a significant amount of money on it & probably eventually sort it. Your time or your money - the choice is yours.

Another consideration is a health one - homes can be deemed unfit for occupation due to certain types &/ or extensive mould because of the spores that can be inhaled due to proximity & exposure. While you don't live in your car, you're in close proximity to the mould & exposed for various periods of time in a very small enclosed space. The use of the heater or air conditioning, if fitted, in that environment doesn't even bear thinking about.

Also, the drain plugs that I've seen people talking about, are they a solid circle about 2 inches across in the floor? How do you open these?

You shouldn't need to open those up as water should not be getting into the cabin. If it still is then your priority is to stop water getting in otherwise you're wasting your time with the other work you're doing. Make it water proof first then remove everything to be cleaned & let it dry out. Then you can tackle whatever needs to be fixed. There are numerous drains in the MX5 - see here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=35601 & here: http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/p/270/439.aspx#439

[eDrive.ie]

Thanks 93_Clubman. I thought they would come out, but I didn't want to just force them out. I think I may be able to remove them individually, snip them, recrimp them, then put them back in the correct holes. (that's the theory anyway!) I'll try an electronics repairs supplies place and see if I can buy the crimping tools and crimps as motor factors don't seem to do them. Unfortunately it's a job I'll need to do myself inside the car as replacing the whole wiring loom seems a pretty difficult job to do.

The car is watertight now, it's just I'm having a bit of difficulty getting the carpet out. Water is still coming out of it so it's like leaving a huge sponge in the car while trying to dry it out. Someone said you have to cut it in half to remove it, which begs the question, how does the carpet fit in the first place or get replaced in one piece!

Re-health risks, If I get it dry and then use an antibacterial airfreshener, I should hopefully be okay. Liqui-Moli make one for cleaning the air in the car. It has a lock on it. You activate it, put it in the passenger footwell, turn on the airconditioning and shut the door for 15 mins. It kills bacteria and mould.

[hks_kansei]

The car is watertight now, it's just I'm having a bit of difficulty getting the carpet out. Water is still coming out of it so it's like leaving a huge sponge in the car while trying to dry it out. Someone said you have to cut it in half to remove it, which begs the question, how does the carpet fit in the first place or get replaced in one piece!

The carpet is installed at the factory before the dashboard/console/etc.

But, to remove it without removing the dash all you need to do is cut a small section that is only visible when you've got your head in the footwell.

Basically there's a strip that does across the transmission tunnel behind the radio panel etc. You need to cut this to let the carpet free (I can't remember the exact cuts, but if you look at it with a torch you should be able to see where it's caught.

[93_Clubman]

Thanks 93_Clubman. I thought they would come out, but I didn't want to just force them out. I think I may be able to remove them individually, snip them, recrimp them, then put them back in the correct holes. (that's the theory anyway!)

Like you, I'd be trying to clean it up first rather than replacing the loom. Think it might be worthwhile trying to clean up those loomside ECU electrical connectors which are inside the ECU plug blocks rather than cutting & fitting new ones. Perhaps there's a solution of something that they can be dipped or soaked in after disconnecting the battery.

Great to hear it's no longer leaking & that you've given some thought to the mould issue. Good luck!

[Steampunk]

Sorry I haven't read everthing clubman & hks has written (my eyes can't stand reading lengthy things on a screen) but if i got the gist correctly and you've got electrical gremlins due to water (in whatever form), then I would fix it as best you can until it runs ok again and on-sell as suggested. Unless you really want to replace the entire wiring loom.

Over the last few years I've learnt a new affliction of "capillary action" in electrical wires starting at one place then cancering to other places. Think back to primary school biology when you put a stick of celery in water with dye and it sucks it up and you can see it in the tubes of the celery.
When I first heard about this I thought "yeah right, I call bullsh*t on that" but when explained the theory, it kinda makes sense.
Water has an ionic charge, so there is a possibility for it to be "sucked up" by electrical current from one place to another.

[93_Clubman]

Agree Andrew, & OP's posts certainly point to that occurring in parts of the vehicle outside of the effected area, i.e. spreading from the interior to the engine bay.