'Trim springs' ?

[Basho]

Has anyone used the "Trim Springs' that are being Ebay'd by Mania at the moment ?

The lowering is being put at 13mm front and 19mm rear which is just about what I want to drop mine by.

How did they go ?

[hks_kansei]

Is "Trim" a brand name?
Or are they just choppies with a fresh coat of paint?



Either way, what do you mean by "how did they go"?

Contact Mania and see if you can find out the spring rate, you can then compare that rate to other known springs, adn to OEM ones, and reach a conclusion as to if they'll be stiffer/softer than what you have/want.

As for reliability, I've never heard of springs wearing substantially outside of severe punishment like rallies etc. They're not really complicated, they're just a big bit of wire bent into a spiral.



IF they are cut springs, I wouldn't bother with them for a few reasons.
1: Chopped springs are usually illegal
2: Depending of the amount cut, they can ride like sh*t and no longer be captive.
3: why buy a set of cut springs when you can instead spend 10mins with an angle grinder and cut your springs?

[manga_blue]

It's pretty meaningless for them to say it lowers the car by 13mm when there's a 50mm range of heights in the OEM spec, isn't it? I'd go back to Mania and ask them what the ride height is after these springs are fitted on standard shocks. Also, as kansei said, you should find out what the spring rates are too.

[Basho]

I presume "trim" is a product handle like 'sport' , they're red , they must be good , realy I'm just asking if anyone has used or is familiar with them without all the bull-hit.

So far in my spring saga I've found out that eiback 's can sag and that no-one knows remotely frakin close to what a set of springs will actualy lower a car by.

Which is understandable when no-one knows what frakin height the car was in the first place.



So---"Trim Springs" anyone ?

[hks_kansei]

I've found out that eiback 's can sag and that no-one knows remotely frakin close to what a set of springs will actualy lower a car by.

It's not that Eibach's can sag, ALL springs can sag (and most will, it's more a matter of how long until)

There's an extremely high chance that the OEM ones you're using have sagged.



For reference, most good spring manufacturers quotes on lowering amounts are pretty close.
I have a set of secondhand Eibach/Mazdaspeed springs in mine. The booklet from when they were released (10-12 years ago) said they lower the car by 25mm
Guess what they lowered my car by? yep, 25mm (give or take a mm or so depending how much fuel is in the car etc)
After 10 years, and an unknown amount of km (I tend to think more rather than less by the paint chips and bits of rust) they've not sagged.


On the internet people tend to exagerrate. One set of sagged Eibach's all of a sudden become EVERY set.
One broken Rota wheel, and EVERY ROTA MUST BE MADE OF TINFOIL!



I honestly think you need to sit down, and think carefuly about what you want.
You've already chosen an abnormal amount to lower by, a 13mm drop isn't going to be that noticable so most companies don't bother doing it.


If you're happy with how the car rides and handles on the OEM setup, maybe just keep the OEM setup?
Everything is a compromise, to go lower you usually sacrifice comfort.


The only option to keep the ride like stock is to either cut the springs (dodgy, illegal)
or to have them reset at a lower height.

Either way, you'll keep the same ride quality, and the same springs, but the compromise will be that you'll be more likely to hit bumpstops etc on large bumps (although, 13mm is such a small amount it's likely to never be a problem)

[Basho]

Hey hks_kansei , thanks for the reply, my OEM struts and springs are as good as 20 year old units can be thet don't leak and imo are set a tad too high from the factory.

I find the OEM set up a little wooden, and the ride hieght A TAD to high , just an imo again.

The likes of Olins are out of the question, ($) I've tried Teins and didn't like them either .

A KYB AGX / Eibach combo was recomended by someone who , unlike me, actualy knows what they're talking about and understands what I'm after however as I found with the Teins that the best results came with only a small drop of about 15mm at each end the search for a 15mm 'ish lowering solution started.

The result I'm after may be in a KYB AGX/Eibach shock spring combo with Fatcat strut top mounts incorporating Fatcat risers.

Then along came the 'Trim Springs' which could provide a much more cost effective solution .

And here we are

[tbro]

Ok, I REALLY know sweet stuff all about suspension, but listen anyway!!!!

Buy a set of Kings/Eibach or sweet fanny adams standard springs, then get a set of Fatcat bumpstops( and you will need to work which ones)
the NB tophats and fatcat fitting kit to suit. Now fit these to you choice of shocks and fitem. Get a wheel alignment and drive it.

You car will be 13.1472mm lower front and 12.974mm rear with this setup. Now as I said I know ƒü¢k all about suspension except how to set it up for Race or Nice Soft ride which handles!! Oh and by the way ask those who drove THE clubby!

Now, your not going to take any of this advise that I have offered so I really don't know why I have bothered, but I must be feeling in a good mood.

Goodbye.

[KevGoat]

Hi Basho ...

I am nearly 55 years old, and I was fussy about getting a comfortable yet sporty ride in my 1990 NA6 when I started on the suspension upgrade. Although I love the lowered look (not slammed), I wanted to stay practical and not have to worry about every speedhump or angled driveway. I am definately no performance driver or suspension expert.

I spent ages reading every Forum I could, and became even more confused For every driver that likes one brand of coilover or spring/shock combo, there's always many that argue against them. Suspension is very personal and individual, so this makes it difficult for anyone to advise. Plus as has been mentioned, the differing original ride height of individual's cars makes ride height measurements on the same setup inconsistent. BTW you haven't mentioned what your current ride heights are and what you'd like to achieve.

After trying a set of Eibach Pro Kit lowered springs and finding the ride just didn't suit me and the height was too low (about 15mm lower than stated and below legal clearances on mine) I spoke with King Springs about their springs and what shocks they would recommend. After thinking about it all, I finally bit the bullet and went to my local Autobahn and ordered a set of Monroe shocks and a set of Standard Height King Springs. The 40% discount on everything at the time helped and I liked the idea of local shop replacements I'd also been in lengthy communication with Fatcat Motorsport regarding their top mounts/bumpstop kits and ordered those as well. I didn't fit the top mounts when they arrived as I wasn't keen on the bolt setup, but I fitted their bumpstops. The FCM Top Mounts will lower your suspension approx 12/13mm without degrading travel. I haven't regretted this setup one single bit. Every person who I take for a drive comments on how comfortable the ride is and despite this basic suspension setup and basic Kelly tyres, she still handles well. Probably wouldn't be much use as a track setup, but it is a very nice road setup

My ride heights wheel centre to guard when this setup was originally fitted was approx 350mm front, 370mm rear. Don't know how this compares to your requirements but gives you an idea. I have about 120/130mm clearance underneath. I should imagine it has probably settled a little lower than that by now, should measure it all actually

Last weekend I fitted a Brown Davis roll bar, and I have noticed how much stiffer the setup has become. Still doesn't hit any bumps as harsh as the Eibachs did, but it's a little more noticeable than prior. The whole car feels tighter and probably now that there's less flex the springs/shocks are working properly.

As far as the "trim" springs go, personally I wouldn't go there. Seems like a waste of time to me.

Anyway, I don't know if my ramble helps you at all but hopefully I've given you something different to consider ... good luck

Kev

[Basho]

Hi KevGoat , thanks for the reply , if I've got this right you've used Kings and Monroes with the OEM strut top mount and you got a good ride result , did you get any lowering at all ?

I'm running 350 F--360 R with a full tank of fuel.


Hi tbro thanks very much for your advice, how does the harshness go running struttops with no seating rubber between the spring and the strut top hat ? just askin

[KevGoat]

Hi KevGoat , thanks for the reply , if I've got this right you've used Kings and Monroes with the OEM strut top mount and you got a good ride result , did you get any lowering at all ?

Hi Basho

Yeah - Monroe shocks, Kings Springs (standard height), stock NA6 top mounts, FCM bumpstops & FCM shock boots. I still have stock sway bars front/rear. I have a cheap ebay strut tower brace fitted, no idea if that makes any difference but looks nice and I now have a BD Roll Bar that has had a positive stiffening effect and has slightly changed the suspension dynamics.

On your height specs compared to mine, I would say there was no real lowering effect, but I can't say for sure. I can only give the different heights my car achieved on the different setups to give some comparison. When I purchased the car, the springs had been cut by the previous owner and it was literally sitting on it's bumpstops so I have no starting reference

For comparison, the Eibachs on stock shocks sat my car at 300mm front, 320mm rear with undercar clearance 70 - 80mm which was just too low for my liking and was hitting the (standard) bumpstops in normal driving. I think this setup would have been a lot less harsh had I fitted the FCM bumpstops at that time but I'd been too hasty in trying to get the car on the road and I hadn't researched much The extra lowering effect of the FCM top mounts would have negated their use with the Eibachs without FCM's spacers to counteract the extra lowering that these achieve, but fitting them would have refreshed the shock travel lost with the shorter springs, which would also have given a better ride.

Compared to the OEM spring specs (Front 154 lbs/in, Rear 94 lbs/in) the specs given to me from Kings on the springs I fitted were Front (KMFS-52) 230lbs, Rear (KMRS-53) 145lbs. I was told the lowered Eibach Pro Kits were Front 228 lbs, Rear 70/137 lbs (Progressive) so pretty close. (Anyone please correct these figures if any are wrong!)

My idea of comfort, ride and handling will differ to other's ideas, but I personally find the Monroe/Kings/FCM setup very easy to live with as a daily driver, which the car has happily crept in as at the moment over my Tarago. I seriously considered the KYB AGX and Koni adjustables which were also locally available, but my thought process was that for the price difference of these against the Monroes, the adjustability would be something that I'd personally hardly ever use. Once set, I'd probably never change them again, so I preferred to save the cash difference for something else. It was a gamble that, for me, paid off

I must admit that aesthetically, I'd also like to lower my car just a little, but for now I am just not willing to risk compromising the result I achieved. I might at some time re-visit the idea of fitting the FCM top mounts just for the 12/13mm drop. This would have no negative effect on comfort at all, in fact the opposite. That amount of drop might just be enough for me. I also recently fitted some cheap front & rear OEM R Package style lips purchased off ebay and these together with the mud guards on all four corners gives a reasonablly good stance even at the standard height.

Anyway ... once again I've rambled on enough but feel free to throw back any questions.

Cheers

Kev.

[Basho]

Hi Kev, what hieght does your car currently sit at ?

[KevGoat]

Hi Kev, what hieght does your car currently sit at ?

I just went out and measured her ... the King's have not sagged at all, despite some extra weight of the BD Roll bar, NB Windbreak, slightly heavier NB8B seats and all the other stuff I've upgraded since the springs/shocks were originally fitted. She's sitting at 350mm front, 370mm rear. Waaaay to high for many, but it really doesn't look that bad to this bald old fart who lowered virtually every car he's owned over the past 37 years

I noticed I have height variance left to right Don't know if this is adjustable via some mechanical alterations, must look that up, but this might be an advantage of adjustable coilovers. Just throwing another consideration out there ....

Kev.

[93_Clubman]

I noticed I have height variance left to right.

Rear dside (on RHD) often sits about 10mm lower on NAs (even very low km examples):
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=52506&p=660184#p660184

[KevGoat]

Rear dside (on RHD) often sits about 10mm lower on NAs (even very low km examples):
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=52506&p=660184#p660184

Thanks for that .... mine is actually slightly lower passenger side front & rear, but from reading those threads it appears many NA's have variations so I have a fairly normal car after all

Kev

[hks_kansei]

Mines a little lower on one side as well.

easiest way is to use it to your advantage and swap the springs so the higher ones are on the driver's side.
When you sit in the car it levels out.