1.8 Build specs. PLEASE CRITICISE!!!

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:56 pm

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=456188

150whp is bolt-ons and a good tune. Above that you need to go into the motor.
160-165whp is just a little bowl work and compression.
170whp requires more substantial head work or mild cams or lots of compression, pick one.
185whp requires mild cams (still streetable in a VVT), compression, porting. Pick two.
195whp full head work, lots of compression and mild to medium race cams.
205whp+ is pretty much a full race engine with cams that would probably never idle for street use.
225whp+ so and the life expectancy begins to shorten. Perhaps 15-30 race hrs and you're looking at a $15-20K long block.

Aussie Stig · Postby **Aussie Stig** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:03 pm

You seriously gonna spend more on the engine than the whole car is worth?

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:04 pm

I.M.O.

I wouldn't worry to much.
Stock bottom end, shave the head 5 angle grind on the valves, Clean up the port and a set of cams.

Stand alone MS ecu with a tune. Drive the pants off it. All done for under $2000. Job is a good'n

I don't see the point on chasing top end hp after that as it gets bloody expensive!
Thats what I did. The motor has 10000kms on it, spent most of it's time on the track, hill climbs and sprints. Still going strong.

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:07 pm

Aussie Stig wrote:You seriously gonna spend more on the engine than the whole car is worth?

Some people do, I'm racing 2f next year the money people spent is unreal. Stuart motors etc. Some mx5 are well over the 80k mark. Makes my 10k investment quite liveable. :mrgreen:

I will be making up the numbers at the back I'm quite sure :beer:

Postby **NitroDann** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:14 pm

Those numbers are BS.

Far too high.

American dyno numbers, at the engine numbers on a good day.

Dann

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:27 pm

NitroDann wrote:Those numbers are BS.

Far too high.

American dyno numbers, at the engine numbers on a good day.

Dann

Those number are from mr 949

Numbers are numbers

Postby **NitroDann** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:30 pm

They are US dyno numbers, which are notoriously high compared to aussie numbers, I have no idea why but thats just how it is.

Dann

Dweezle · Postby **Dweezle** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:32 pm

Ship it straight to wozzah.

Perfect idea. Prob won't cost much either to get it there.
Not sure on how i would package it up. I guess on a Pallet.

150whp is bolt-ons and a good tune. Above that you need to go into the motor.
160-165whp is just a little bowl work and compression.
170whp requires more substantial head work or mild cams or lots of compression, pick one.
185whp requires mild cams (still streetable in a VVT), compression, porting. Pick two.
195whp full head work, lots of compression and mild to medium race cams.
205whp+ is pretty much a full race engine with cams that would probably never idle for street use.
225whp+ so and the life expectancy begins to shorten. Perhaps 15-30 race hrs and you're looking at a $15-20K long block.

How is anyone making 150hp with bolt ons?? unless it is of the COMPRESSED AIR VARIETY!

You seriously gonna spend more on the engine than the whole car is worth?

The car after i sold the extra bits that came with cost me $2000.
So yeah, i suppose i am going to spend more :twisted:

off course i have bought shocks, brakes etc but that is all part of the end product.

I wouldn't worry to much.
Stock bottom end, shave the head 5 angle grind on the valves, Clean up the port and a set of cams.
Stand alone MS ecu with a tune. Drive the pants off it. All done for under $2000. Job is a good'n
I don't see the point on chasing top end hp after that as it gets bloody expensive!
Thats what I did. The motor has 10000kms on it, spent most of it's time on the track, hill climbs and sprints. Still going strong.

This is exactly what i have in mind.
Well besides the stock bottom end.
I believe i need to redo the rings on the bottom end and feel i might as well do the rods and bump up the compression at the same time.
Guess i could just freshen the bottom end up but i would feel a bit dumb not strengthening the rods while down there.
If the engine was running without smoke then i was just going to cam it and be done for now.

But THANKS THANKS THANK for everyones contribution.
I am really enjoying all the advice and points of view.

wozzah1975 · Postby **wozzah1975** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:43 pm

toppertee wrote:http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=456188

150whp is bolt-ons and a good tune. Above that you need to go into the motor. never seen one without at least milder cams make anywhere near that
160-165whp is just a little bowl work and compression. at least port work, decent cams and comp
170whp requires more substantial head work or mild cams or lots of compression, pick one.larger cams, more comp and o/size valves than the above, mild cams won't cut it
185whp requires mild cams (still streetable in a VVT), compression, porting. Pick two. larger valves and more port work again from the above, getting toward the limit of cam size on the OE bucket size fitted
195whp full head work, lots of compression and mild to medium race cams. same as above, but larger bore size giving around 1950ccc
205whp+ is pretty much a full race engine with cams that would probably never idle for street use. cylinder head machined for larger buckets, bigger cams than above
225whp+ so and the life expectancy begins to shorten. Perhaps 15-30 race hrs and you're looking at a $15-20K long block. well and truly achievable with very extensive developement work on the cylinder head, and when I say extensive I mean rethinking the inlet port and raising it in the head, welding, cutting shutting etc. Whilst I haven't seen these numbers first hand I believe higher numbers could be gotten.

The numbers you are quoting here are achievable, they don't match the work level listed next to them (on a realistic dyno anyway) I would suggest inflated figures, I'd almost bet my left nut on that . IMO in the blue

Cheers
Woz

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:49 pm

wozzah1975 wrote:
toppertee wrote:http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=456188

150whp is bolt-ons and a good tune. Above that you need to go into the motor. never seen one without at least milder cams make anywhere near that
160-165whp is just a little bowl work and compression. at least port work, decent cams and comp
170whp requires more substantial head work or mild cams or lots of compression, pick one.larger cams, more comp and o/size valves than the above, mild cams won't cut it
185whp requires mild cams (still streetable in a VVT), compression, porting. Pick two. larger valves and more port work again from the above, getting toward the limit of cam size on the OE bucket size fitted
195whp full head work, lots of compression and mild to medium race cams. same as above, but larger bore size giving around 1950ccc
205whp+ is pretty much a full race engine with cams that would probably never idle for street use. cylinder head machined for larger buckets, bigger cams than above
225whp+ so and the life expectancy begins to shorten. Perhaps 15-30 race hrs and you're looking at a $15-20K long block. well and truly achievable with very extensive developement work on the cylinder head, and when I say extensive I mean rethinking the inlet port and raising it in the head, welding, cutting shutting etc. Whilst I haven't seen these numbers first hand I believe higher numbers could be gotten.

The numbers you are quoting here are achievable, they don't match the work level listed next to them (on a realistic dyno anyway) I would suggest inflated figures, I'd almost bet my left nut on that . IMO in the blue

Cheers
Woz

Click the link it's just a break down on another forum
Mr 949 numbers
I just don't see the point chasing big number na withe mx5 motor little value for hp

Postby **NitroDann** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:52 pm

Dweezle is boosting it.

Dann

wozzah1975 · Postby **wozzah1975** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:05 pm

toppertee wrote:
wozzah1975 wrote:
toppertee wrote:http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=456188

150whp is bolt-ons and a good tune. Above that you need to go into the motor. never seen one without at least milder cams make anywhere near that
160-165whp is just a little bowl work and compression. at least port work, decent cams and comp
170whp requires more substantial head work or mild cams or lots of compression, pick one.larger cams, more comp and o/size valves than the above, mild cams won't cut it
185whp requires mild cams (still streetable in a VVT), compression, porting. Pick two. larger valves and more port work again from the above, getting toward the limit of cam size on the OE bucket size fitted
195whp full head work, lots of compression and mild to medium race cams. same as above, but larger bore size giving around 1950ccc
205whp+ is pretty much a full race engine with cams that would probably never idle for street use. cylinder head machined for larger buckets, bigger cams than above
225whp+ so and the life expectancy begins to shorten. Perhaps 15-30 race hrs and you're looking at a $15-20K long block. well and truly achievable with very extensive developement work on the cylinder head, and when I say extensive I mean rethinking the inlet port and raising it in the head, welding, cutting shutting etc. Whilst I haven't seen these numbers first hand I believe higher numbers could be gotten.

The numbers you are quoting here are achievable, they don't match the work level listed next to them (on a realistic dyno anyway) I would suggest inflated figures, I'd almost bet my left nut on that . IMO in the blue

Cheers
Woz

Click the link it's just a break down on another forum
Mr 949 numbers
I just don't see the point chasing big number na withe mx5 motor little value for hp

I did click the link, still B/S numbers.

The point of building N/A engines may be to suit a specific racing class, hence the point in chasing the big N/A numbers. Just bolting on a turbo isn't for everybody. Any developement work in N/A format is also vaild for big horsepower turbo applications, so there is no wasted developement either way.

Cheers
Woz

project.r.racing · Postby **project.r.racing** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Where is the like button?

Aussie Stig · Postby **Aussie Stig** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:18 pm

Aussie Stig wrote:You seriously gonna spend more on the engine than the whole car is worth?

Go for it Dweezle, you are only young once. Plenty of knowledge here to guide you. :beer:

And if you crash it then the part out will recoup most of your money. :mrgreen:

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:47 pm

[/quote]I did click the link, still B/S numbers.

The point of building N/A engines may be to suit a specific racing class, hence the point in chasing the big N/A numbers. Just bolting on a turbo isn't for everybody. Any developement work in N/A format is also vaild for big horsepower turbo applications, so there is no wasted developement either way.

Cheers
Woz[/quote]

I.M.O. Chasing hp n/a with a mx5 motor is like smoking crack, sure it might start out as fun. But in the end with make you broke and ruin your life :mrgreen: