Seeking some advice on Springs

[CheyneX5]

Hey Guys,

I'm about due to change my suspension and have been looking at a few different options.

I currently have Koni Sport Shocks and King Springs. This setup was in the car when i purchased it. The Koni's feel tired and the springs have sagged, so i have decided to go with something brand new. I will go for some new Koni sports and am trying to decide on which springs to pair them with. I'm trying to avoid King springs as they seem to be the budget option and what everyone goes for. I don't want to cheap out, within reason.

I was quite drawn to the Eibach Pro springs, i have only ever heard good things about them. I want to use this set up for the occasional track day and daily driving. I also would like to explore the Koni Springs if anyone has any knowledge on either?

The Kings i have are quite crashy at the moment but the shocks are also quite worn as well as the bump stops being shagged.

I will also be getting Fat Cat Motorsport Bumpstops.

Thanks and i look forward to hearing some feedback

[NitroDann]

A spring is a spring, choose a length and a rate, then buy the cheapest.

Dann

[taminga16]

Hi Cheyne,
Have you considered going with the matching Koni springs (check the MX5 Centre site).
Best.
Greg.

[CheyneX5]

A spring is a spring, choose a length and a rate, then buy the cheapest.

Dann

That's the part i don't really get mate. I'm not really sure on calculating lengths and rates into feel and performance...

[NitroDann]

EDIT:
I oversimplified it and dont want to be missleading.

Just choosing some springs based on the fact that they are expensive will get you nowhere. If you are going to spend 2 weeks pay on suspension spend half a day doing the work to find a combo that will work.

Dann

[CheyneX5]

EDIT:
I oversimplified it and dont want to be missleading.

Just choosing some springs based on the fact that they are expensive will get you nowhere. If you are going to spend 2 weeks pay on suspension spend half a day doing the work to find a combo that will work.

Dann

Thats cool mate. Thanks.

As mentioned above, i will be going with the Koni yellows and will have them set to 1.5 out of 2 turns. They will be pretty firm. I assume that the Koni springs would be matched to these. But i am still curious to explore the Eibachs...

This is all the info i could find on the Eibach Pro: http://web2.carparts-cat.com/default.as ... 004&12=140

It seems the Koni Springs are a little lower and are made by H&R. This is the info i could find (sadly in German). Are you able to find the spring rates on either of these Dann?

[NitroDann]

Honestly, Im not really the guy to ask.

Perhaps ask magna blue, he has a LOT of experience playing with spring rates and sways.

Call the supplier maybe?

Dann

[CheyneX5]

Honestly, Im not really the guy to ask.

Perhaps ask magna blue, he has a LOT of experience playing with spring rates and sways.

Call the supplier maybe?

Dann

Thanks for your honesty mate You have been helpful!

Calling Manga Blue...

[Okibi]

For awhile koni/Eibach Pro were the standard upgrade for NA MX-5/Miatas, I think most go an adjustable coilover these days because of the added adjustment.

Is there a reason you want koni sport & springs over an adjustable coilover setup?

[manga_blue]

G'day Cheyne.

As Dann said, a spring is just a spring. It has just three parameters: an internal diameter, a free length and a spring rate. They're all about the same quality tempered steel. I have absolutely no knowledge of brands but if a maker shrouds any of these parameters in mystery then I pass him by.

A stock NA6 has spring rates of 2.8/1.7 Kg/mm F/R. Some of the NSW quicks (and Teruo?) run 14/10. Mine are 10/7 with no sways. This is about the limit of reasonable comfort for highways, country B roads and dirt but it's far too harsh for city driving. Fortunately my car never gets dríven in the city cos tram tracks, small potholes and gutter strips are nasty at low speed. Prior to those I had 5/4 and the missus was not comfortable with it because it was too soft and floaty for her and it was a bit mushy on the track as well.

The higher the rate the higher the grip, the faster the turn-in, the better the bump response and the lower the comfort level. It's up to you to select your compromise, which is probably somewhere on a continuum between stock and mine.

I have no idea how you can play with springs without some form of height adjustment. I also regard variable or progressive rate springs as fundamentally stupid.

[CheyneX5]

The main reason is value and brand recognition Dave.

For $1000 I can get yellow speed or Bc Coilovers. Both of these seem to be good products. But what attracts me is brand quality and longevity and a good track record.

For the same money, or even a little less, I can get a Koni & Eibach Combo with fatcat bumpstops and know I have a brilliant setup in terms of quality.

It's like some one offering you a top end Aldi laptop versus a middle of the range MacBook pro.

What are your thoughts?

[CheyneX5]

G'day Cheyne.

As Dann said, a spring is just a spring. It has just three parameters: an internal diameter, a free length and a spring rate. They're all about the same quality tempered steel. I have absolutely no knowledge of brands but if a maker shrouds any of these parameters in mystery then I pass him by.

A stock NA6 has spring rates of 2.8/1.7 Kg/mm F/R. Some of the NSW quicks (and Teruo?) run 14/10. Mine are 10/7 with no sways. This is about the limit of reasonable comfort for highways, country B roads and dirt but it's far too harsh for city driving. Fortunately my car never gets dríven in the city cos tram tracks, small potholes and gutter strips are nasty at low speed. Prior to those I had 5/4 and the missus was not comfortable with it because it was too soft and floaty for her and it was a bit mushy on the track as well.

The higher the rate the higher the grip, the faster the turn-in, the better the bump response and the lower the comfort level. It's up to you to select your compromise, which is probably somewhere on a continuum between stock and mine.

I have no idea how you can play with springs without some form of height adjustment. I also regard variable or progressive rate springs as fundamentally stupid.

That's great advice mate. I'm going with the Konis because they are height adjustable. I just need some way of finding the spring rates of the eibachs and the Konis to see which is better. I don't mind a firm ride within reason.
Can you suggest any springs that you know of that are available online or through a store front?

[manga_blue]

Sorry, fine tuning suspension is not simple.

Tein have the biggest properly specified range that I know of. Trouble is that if you look at that list then you'll appreciate the complexity. http://www.tein.com/products/standard_s ... _list.html

If you don't go with a known combination then you'd probably need help before you can just go out out and buy springs. There are problems to avoid like going loose at full droop , maybe need for helper springs, pre-loading for some shocks, etc. Dean at Motorsport Essentials? Teruo has a suspension tuner? Ralph at TrueTrack in Nth Melbourne? Randy at Nissco?

[sailaholic]

Why not just have the koni you have revalved to suit your new spring choice? Probably nothing wrong with the body and shaft them selves.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[CheyneX5]

Why not just have the koni you have revalved to suit your new spring choice? Probably nothing wrong with the body and shaft them selves.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

From what i can see they look fine. I have been quoted about $150 per shock to get them rebuilt. At this price, i can buy a brand new set from Shox.com.

Sorry, fine tuning suspension is not simple.

Tein have the biggest properly specified range that I know of. Trouble is that if you look at that list then you'll appreciate the complexity. http://www.tein.com/products/standard_s ... _list.html

If you don't go with a known combination then you'd probably need help before you can just go out out and buy springs. There are problems to avoid like going loose at full droop , maybe need for helper springs, pre-loading for some shocks, etc. Dean at Motorsport Essentials? Teruo has a suspension tuner? Ralph at TrueTrack in Nth Melbourne? Randy at Nissco?

Thanks for all of that information mate, i'll try to gather as much data as i can before going with something. I like the sound of heavier springs, probably not as hard as the track guys are using but i want something that will give me very responsive steering feedback and good dynamic. I'll contact the guys you mentioned