Twincharging discussions.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:43 am

hey guys,

Trying to work out what to build for the next project, probably going to put the n/a built B6 up for sale and work on a BP4W setup definately turbocharged, running over 300rwhp, but considering twincharging.

The consideration is mostly parallel vs sequential.

Can anyone point me to anybody who has any experience?
For example the gentleman with the locost with the 4agzte?

Thanks,
Dann

jerrah · Postby **jerrah** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:27 pm

I remember there was a fellow on MT with a twincharger a while back. I thought under bonnet space is the biggest problems with twincharging a MX5.

lizard · Postby **lizard** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:41 pm

The best mod I EVER did to my B4 was piss off the two turbos and fit one big one .

VW have done a good job on the supercharged /turbo setup very little if no lag anywhere in any gear

Jeo · Postby **Jeo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Dave (who isn't on here but his son, RussellB, is) has a twincharged 4AGZTE clubman. Don't know if that's of any use but maybe PM Russ?

rxmx · Postby **rxmx** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:40 pm

You planning a hotside or coldside charger? Id love to try out a twincharged setup. Sux what happened with your car good to see your back on track and no one got hurt, looking forward to this build.

Be interesting to see how you regulate boost with different twincharged setups.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/329157/1997-mazda-miata-mx-5/page-5#3291570018

Hjt · Postby **Hjt** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:09 pm

right click, save image as.

Cheers mate

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:41 pm

rxmx wrote:You planning a hotside or coldside charger? Id love to try out a twincharged setup. Sux what happened with your car good to see your back on track and no one got hurt, looking forward to this build.

Be interesting to see how you regulate boost with different twincharged setups.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/329157/1997-mazda-miata-mx-5/page-5#3291570018

This is my intent. Ive clicked that link many times in my travels, and the ability to spool a truly oversized turbo at under 3000rpm really appeals to me.

My issue is simply understanding the quirks of tuning and setup.

Building that is pretty easy really.

Dann

vrmmmpshhh · Postby **vrmmmpshhh** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:20 pm

look at a fd vacuum line diagram and the turbos themselves will show you how logistically difficult it is to do sequential turbos which is what you'd be trying to do here. sizing them correctly would be the hardest part of the exercise. The fd has a 10-8-10 boost pattern new, if there is a leak anyhere in the mass of lines and solenoids the pattern goes all screwy.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:29 pm

If you look at the pic/link, you will see a car that has a blow through supercharger setup.

This is what I plan, along with Quads, everyone needs quads.

Dann

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:54 am

I have no doubt it's possible, BUT, my main thought is will there be enough benefit over a turbo/supercharge alone to warrant the extra work and complication?

Hjt · Postby **Hjt** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:57 am

when are you off your P plates, hard to explain to the Police when it's twin charged

Postby **NitroDann** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:08 am

Young cop to old cop- 'Hes turbocharged that'
Old cop back- 'You idiot, thats a supercharger'

It will be 6 months or so till Im off.

The benifit of doing both is that the supercharger increases volumetric efficiency at all RPM levels, not by as much as a turbo mind you.

If you run 8psi supercharged on a 1.9L engine you have the volumetric efficiency of a n/a 3L engine. Thats all well and good on its own, but now you have the exhaust gas energy to spool a turbo designed for a supra.
With the bottom end to hold it together you get a car that drives exactly like a single turbo 2JZ swap.

I intend to run the turbocharger INTO the blower, so at low rpm the blower pulls air through the turbo who compressor housing will flow around 400rwhp. At the same time its supercharged boost will give a 3L engines worth of power, torque and turbo spooling ability. So at 2500rpm still pulling a strong 8psi's worth of blower torque, the turbo spools another 7-10psi and and we are running 15-20 odd psi worth of T04z.

Yeah, at 2500rpm.

Also this build will use quad throttle boddies to eliminate the pathetic response you get from a regular blower setup.

Dann

Beelzeboss · Postby **Beelzeboss** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:30 pm

Have you looked into a W2A intercooler between the blower and engine? I've heard good things about Laminova cores and there's a guy selling them cheap on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Laminova-Int ... 19b6c3e1d9

I was going to buy a couple just in case I put the MP90 on the KL :mrgreen:

As for twin charging I've always liked the idea of a blow through supercharger, though I read many forum posts on the net which basically say a single turbo is a better setup (maybe they don't mind the lag)

Postby **NitroDann** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:05 pm

A single turbo is a better solution per hour/dollar spent. But what If you want a fabrication showpiece. And what if you want a 1.8L to spool a filthy big GT35r nice and low?

One of the big blower issues is throttle response, which is often solved by running 2 throttle bodies, one in the factory location, and one behind the blower. I intend to run

Air filter-Turbo-Blower-A/A intercooler (V mount)- Plenum-ITBs

All problems solved, just lots of fab work. But thats the point.

Dann

jerrah · Postby **jerrah** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:23 pm

Which supercharger would you be running? Hotside or coldside, it would be interesting to see how it would all fit together.

I think if I did my blower again I could make a MP45 more compact. There would be plenty of room on the hotside if you mounted it low where the A/C normally is. That way you could go: Filter -> High mount turbo -> low mount SC -> Intercooler -> quad TB's.

Would pushing compressed air into a blower push it beyond it's efficiency range sooner?