MX5 CLUB OF QLD TRACK DAY 21 MAY 2012

[JBT]

Zero: I was referring back around 2008-09 where we got heaps of participants because the cost was around $90 WITH accurate timing using those magnetic (or whatever) strips.

That was a "special deal" to MX-5 Club arranged by a Club member/contact at the time. The track hire price got ramped up by about 300% after the special price finished.

[zero00]

JBT

Thanks for that! As I said was before my time

It is interesting to see the costs now for 'Track Attack' and 'Time Attack' days at Lakeside, when taking into account value for money or laps/dollar, we have a far better entry fee for both members and non-members who pay 14 days or more prior, overall, far better value or 'bang for your buck!'

Both Alan [Corolla GTi] and Thomas [Celica] both used to run Track Attack but when they changed the format from start of 2011 the value was gone - while this year we have had firstly seven runs followed by six runs, you are lucky to get 3-4 at a Time Attack afternoon at Lakeside

[BitRusty]

The new timing device has worked without problem for me for the last 2 outings to lakeside. I have mine zip tied under the bonnet on the drivers side of the strut brace.

The whole setup is $200 to own (including $120 for the handheld display)

The system is a Westhold product

How it works (we have the little blue "activate" units pictured here)
http://www.westhold.com/products_timing.html

The handheld unit (we have the yellow display)
http://www.westhold.com/products_handheld.html

If you get the display, you can mount it incar or give it to your "crew". They are supposed to work anywhere in the paddock. You tell it the serial number of the transponder to monitor.

Also, if you have a smart phone with wifi, you can also connect to the track's wifi and see a live lap list of all cars currently on track. They give you the address and password on the day. You do not need the display for this.

Times can/will be still submitted to natsoft as per normal.

Hope this answers some of the questions

cheers
Matt

[MINX]

Sounds like a good system,
thanks for the up to date info Matt

Havent heard anything from our Compsec so I assume the club will be covering any undisclosed aditional charges for this coming track day?

[JBT]

BitRusty

Are times for each driver for each session displayed i.e. sent to a computer and/or printed during the event in a similar fashion to what has happened at our track days in the past?

[zero00]

MINX

The 'additional charge' would be the purchase/rental of the transponder, I can't see how the Club would be covering the cost of this unit

I have been all over QR's website and can find NO mention of it, maybe I am looking in the wrong place! I searched under 'Sprints', nothing there except and overview of what happens - perhaps a good idea they update this ASAP as the only costs mentioned are $145 for 3 x 6 lap runs

I will stand corrected if I have missed something

[MINX]

No offense Roger, you do a great job of promoting the track events on this forum.
but this info should be coming from the Compsec, or the Club organising the event and accepting our $ and providing the terms and conditions on the MX5 Club web site or emails.
Anything else is hearsay

[project.r.racing]

The new timing device has worked without problem for me for the last 2 outings to lakeside. I have mine zip tied under the bonnet on the drivers side of the strut brace.

The whole setup is $200 to own (including $120 for the handheld display)

The system is a Westhold product

How it works (we have the little blue "activate" units pictured here)
http://www.westhold.com/products_timing.html

The handheld unit (we have the yellow display)
http://www.westhold.com/products_handheld.html

If you get the display, you can mount it incar or give it to your "crew". They are supposed to work anywhere in the paddock. You tell it the serial number of the transponder to monitor.

Also, if you have a smart phone with wifi, you can also connect to the track's wifi and see a live lap list of all cars currently on track. They give you the address and password on the day. You do not need the display for this.

Times can/will be still submitted to natsoft as per normal.

Hope this answers some of the questions

cheers
Matt

I'm linking the orange one. Wire it into a cig lighter plug, and it will be usable in any car as it will become portable. Friends can borrow it etc.

Although the little blue one for $80 which lasts 3 years would be value for money if QR wanna charge $20 a pop to hire them.

Probably a good way for car clubs to make some money also. Buy them and hire them out on track days. The club might as well profit from it rather than QR. Even if a club charged $10 for hire, 3 years x 5 trackdays still should see a profit off them over the 3 years.

[zero00]

project

I'll wait to see what QR offers, $80 is the same price either way but for a Club to buy and hire would be a huge capital outlay, you would have to cover for an unknown number of entrants! I may have been wrong in saying earlier $200 for the display unit, so will leave that for clarification BUT the bottom line on a track day is that timing sheets are available as otherwise how would the Point Scorer, who looks after the Championship, know who finished where? You could not rely on individuals coming up and saying 'I got ****** as a best time of the day'!!

I also wonder will the day's lap times still be uploaded to 'Natsoft'?

From an email I received last Friday from a regular at QR Sprints, 'Time Attack' have only just been informed and then sent out an email dated 03 May, that's Thursday last week

I will scour QR's website again to see where they have informed all about this and its costs

[Guran]

Timing equipment would not be cheap, for accuracy it would have to be electronic and there would have to be someone to control it, not an easy exercise! If you reverted to stop watches, the accuracy goes right out the window!!

I believe a different system is used at Wakefield Park, perhaps 'Guran', should he read this, could let us know the method in use there

The MX-5 Club of NSW currently uses two different timing systems at Wakefield Park.

At state supersprint rounds, we use Dorian timers and drivers either supply their own or hire one for $15 a day. They are bloody expensive things to buy, costing around $600 last time I checked. You can get them cheaper via a group buy but even then, I'm told that the last one organised by the supersprint panel still cost over $400 per transponder. Those Westhold transponders are a very cheap option in comparison. Hopefully this means some much needed competition for Dorian. It's important to understand that we still need to provide volunteers to operate the timing system - it doesn't just work all on it's own. However, I believe it requires fewer people to manage the system than a stopwatch method does.

At our club track days, we use our own RTM Lap Timing Software, developed by club member Rod Menzel several years ago. This is essentially a stopwatch system that operates on a PC. It requires three people to do the timing: one "spotter" to note the sequence of cars approaching the finish line, one person to press the corresponding keyboard button when each car crosses the finish line, and one person to record the order of the car numbers as each crosses the line (as a check against the keyboard operator). This is my understanding of how it works based on watching the timekeepers at work (I haven't done it myself). The accuracy is remarkably good - I estimate that about 99% of laps are within 0.1s of GPS-recorded time - although the quality does depend on the vigilance of the keyboard operator and their reflexes. Electronic timers are obviously more accurate but there are no sheep stations on the line (as Mike likes to say) so this is seen as "fit for purpose". The system even has some advantages over Dorian timing, as all individual lap times for each group are printed and posted up in the timing tower immediately after each run, and the best times are displayed live on a TV screen, grouped by outright time and also grouped by Class. It is a very cheap solution ideally suited to club motor sport, provided that you can get the volunteers to manage it. Thankfully we have very reliable and experienced volunteer timekeepers in our club who are always there to do the timing.

Our club relies heavily on a team of volunteers to create our very successful motor sport events. It's not just in the timing tower, but also event management, registration, scrutineering, grid marshalling, flagging, etc. I am repeatedly amazed by their dedication and self-sacrifice. See pages 8-9 of Club Torque - Summer 2011/12 to learn more about our track day volunteers.

[toppertee]

There only one thing for it well have to get



On the job, surely he can knock a timing device for $16.95+GST

Minx, I don't like your chance there, the club don't pay for the wine a chesse on the chapter runs!

I'm quite happy to pay up for one of these timing devices. Looks pretty good value for money I.M.O. I'm really looking forward to getting out at QLD raceway! Plus a day off work, no chance of pulling a hammy, should be a tick in every box.

[Magpie]

Personally I will just buy one outright and then just have it hardwired in with a switch to turn it on and off. I'm just a little miffed because I just purchased a Qstarz LT-Q6000. If you spread the cost over 3 years and 5 meet’s a year it is not that expensive ($5.33 per event if you don't want a display). It just means that I will have to work a little bit longer in the West to pay for it (I currently have about 54 months to go).

[zero00]

Guran

Thanks for that information, much appreciated

I spoke with QR this afternoon to clarify a few things:

1. Run sheets listing all times will still be available after each Group run
2. Timing Staff will still be in attendance, but not as many required
3. The brand of the unit is 'WESTHOLD'
4. The display unit that can be in-car mounted is $120
5. The new system is also now up and running at Lakeside

Richard from QR has forwarded to me an email dated 17 April last from John Tetley. I will try to attach but it does have quite a bit of content, so if my 'copy' to here fails, anyone can PM me from here with their email address and I will forward to them

Here goes!!
----- Original Message -----
From: John <john@qldraceways.com.au>
To: Neil Lewis <neil@qldraceways.com.au>, Richard Rawcliffe <qrmedia@qldraceways.com.au>
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 05:24:05 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Timing Update for TopGear Competitors - read & feedback pls - to go out today.

Dear Competitor,

Qld Raceways has now moved fully across to a new timing system which has many advantages for you over every other timing system currently available.

Just some of them are:

It's Cheap! $80 per transmitter

It's permanent - mount it permanently on the car and you'll never have to remember where you left it after last time

It does not need charging - you will never show up with a flat Dorian again

It's tough - check out the one that survived an engine bay fire & still worked!

It's easy to mount = two zip ties

It's easy to position - give it a clear view of the track & no more than 600mm above the track - inside the front splitter works good

It can be on the car at the same time as AMB & Dorian transmitters and still work.

For the really paranoid - you can have two transmitters and the system will automatically read the second transmitter if the primary should fail (unlikely)

What changes? Nothing & a lot:

The NO CHANGES is that your results will appear on NatSoft and your time sheets & grid sheets are exactly as before. In this respect the system works exactly like you are used to:

BUT

If you have an internet phone with wireless capability you can connect to an IP address on the QR local area network - FOR FREE - which will give you instant access to the all the times IMMEDIATELY THEY OCCUR - something we could not supply before.

We will be supplementing this service with LapCeivers that record up to your last 2500 lap times and download them to your computer so you won't even need to go to the tower to collect your times! How easyy is that? What's more you can have a LapCeiver in the car so you can get your official time flashed to you - in the car- before you even reach turn 1 at QR or the Kink at LP. How good is that?

Only trouble is the system supports multiple LapCeivers so your pit crew can have one too and ask if you are having holiday out there AND, because it runs almost automatically we will be able to provide you with accurate timing during General Practice sessions - FOR FREE!

LapCeivers will cost you $120 each so you will get the functionality of an on-board lap timer & a Dorian transmitter for $200 instead of around the $900 it currently costs you.

QR is subsidising the price of the transmitter because there are significant administrative advantages for us in having a unique transmitter permanently attached to every car that goes out on the track so we are passing on that saving to you in a much more convenient and practical package than has ever been seen in this country before.

If you can come out to QR before Sunday to purchase your transmitter and register it on that day it will be greatly appreciated. The Sunday am is likely to be very busy with nearly 150 cars entered.

On question you might have is, "will it be available at any other tracks?" and the short answer is "I don't know, it's up to them." If they don't want to get on board you may need to prove your power as a customers or it will be their loss.

Thank you, yet again, for supporting QR to bring this big step forward to grass roots motor sport in Queensland.

Cheers,

John Tetley
CEO ~ Qld Raceways
Ph:+61 418860444

Richard Rawcliffe

Media Officer
Qld Raceways
qrmedia@qldraceways.com.au
07 5461 9100

http://www.qldraceways.com.au
Facebook: Queensland Raceways
Twitter: @QldRaceways

[project.r.racing]

A $99.99USB product selling for $120AUD is subsidised?

At least the transmitter price isn't inflated!

[JBT]

Thanks zero00 of all your investigations and feedback - greatly appreciated.