sailaholic NA8
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- mrpham
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Hmmmnns I do like the Jenvey box, possible something I could try after I get the ITBs running.
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- wozzah1975
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Re: sailaholic NA8
sailaholic wrote:Hi Woz,
i'm away for work at the moment so i can't measure, but here is a photo from inside the plenum / airbox.
As you can see clearance is pretty small ( in my thoughts) i don't remember exactly but for memory you can only squeeze two or three fingers between the airhorns and the airbox.
I'm looking at fitting one of these
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/accessories/airhorns-filters-and-boxes/jenvey-dynamics/airbox-75mm-inlet-right-top-abt2rt to get better airflow to each trumpet and also so i can change where i'm pulling the air from. The current airbox is shaped so that it must cross the engine which is resulting in hot air pick up at the moment. Seeing as i'm still running A/C and P/S it would be a bit of a nightmare to pull cold air in from that side.
Plan at this stage is to either pull air in from infront of the rad through a panel filter and up over the radiator. If that wont work / turns out to be too expensive i'll route through the side of the plastic stone try and come up into the airbox.
THe airbox can have the intake either on the top or the bottom depending on which one i get, and can also have a flat or recessed backing plate. Flat would give a total depth of 90mm or a recessed back plate which would give a total depth of 140mm.
At this stage, i'm not sure the 140mm would fit due to the brake proportioning valve which i could maybe look at getting relocated?
Your thoughts?
Nick
I really need to see it in the flesh, but I work on the theory of no closer than 50mm to the entry of the ram rube. If this means slightly shorter tubes to make it fit you are better off that way than running a long tube with less clearance. Air boxes do weird things to trumpets on ITB's, they need to be right.
Woz
BP DOHC Mk1 Escort race car. Big Valve head, Cosworth Cams, Spool Rods, Nissan Pistons
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Wow, forgot how long it has been since i did an update.
ok....where to start
Headwork
Head has been removed for the car (ages ago) and sent to wozzah for a cam upgrade, and port work. After dissassembly and inspection it seems the engine is not as it cam from the factory as 1) the face of intake valves had thinned down to the point where we couldn't do anything with them b) despite the insides being almost spotlessly clean (suggesting excellent service history as though by previous owner) the HLA all had either significant wear, or in 4 cases divots in them. So decided to fit 1mm oversize, wasted stem supertech valves and new HLAs. I sourced the Valves out of the USA as supertechs were a fair bit cheaper then the ferra (?) ones wozzah had onhand. Couldn't get a big enough profile on the cams to warrant new valve springs, so factory units will be retained (after being checked)
Turned out to be a massive pain in the ass with the sell having listed them in stock, but still not shipped 2 weeks later! so that's held everything up. I went on a bit of a shopping spree from various sources getting alot of stuff sorted for this.
Parts
Mahura Cam Gears, Gates racing timing belt and pulleys from mania (Same price as purchasing O/S). Water pump (more on this later). MX5-Plus coolant re reoute spacer and associated bits. Full aftermarket gasket set, genuine mazda head gasket and rocker cover. ARP head studs (for anyone interested the thread in the block IS M11 x 1.5), a 42 Draft Designs Stealth catch can. Magnaflow 100 Cell Spun metalic catalitc converter (2.25 inch). New slave cyclinder, Mx5 Plus Braided clutch line (deletes the factory hardline as well). A Hondata phenolic intake manifold gasket, Flyin Miata / Willwood brake bias proportioning valve and a block off port for the water pump hosing from Begi (the current system used a steel replacement fitting that i didn't like.
I also picked up another bonnet to play around with getting a cold air intake to come in over the radiator.
I'll put of photos of the interesting stuff when i get it.
Had a few delima's with things.
1) the cooling system. - I was very tempted to put a davies craig electric water pump and controller in. This would give me the opportunity to have the option to remove the thermostat and let the controller aim for a selectable coolant temp. I was very tempted to do this as it wasn't actually that expensive if you could do it with out buying any reroute equipment. In the end i just went normal methods due to being time poor and the new valves, HLA's and assoicated bits blowing out the costs far more than i had anticipated. Still something i very keen to do, but i just want the car back on the road at this point rather then trying to sort bit and pieces out.
2. The hondata intake gasket. - It's made from phenolic material and the idea is to keep the heat out of your intake manifold and lower your intake charge temp. I read around a fair bit an the opinion were fairly varied regarding the effectiveness. Particularly because the "manifold section" is so much shorter in an IRTB setup than a normal manifold. I ended up getting one, because it a) i did see some testing that suggested it was effective on normal manifolds at least b) i'll probably have an aluminum air box soon. c) the horsepower gains if it only gets 5 degree drop in intake temps will probably be worth it at the relatively small cost.
3) THe over the rad air intake. Trying to work out a way to do this while keeping the car legal rather than chopping the second skin on the bonnet up. Haven't really got to far on this and have put it in the later pile cause i want to be driving again. But basically option 1) Cut the second skin and bring it in between the bonnet and radiator. option 2) Change / reduce the rad and bring it in between rad and rad panel. This is likely to lead to $$$ and may not be easily done as i want to keep the A/C in the car. 3) Possibly delete the bonnet latch, put in bonnet pins (flush style) and again trip the bonnet where the catch used to be. Still requires bonnet mods but more likely to look like the cutout should be there.
Other things Changes / changes getting done while this is all happening.
New rocker cover! went for the square style cover.
Plohls cover pre blasting
Decided i wanted to paint it and tried to track down the mazda motorsport blue, Ended up trying to match the mazda corporate blue. Will have to wait and see but i think it might be stupidly close to the mariner blue (which would have been much easier to get).
A few things i found out in regards to this.
1) You can paint most engine parts with normal enamel paint if you don't want to use the High Temp paint sold at autobahn ect.
2) The best surface prep is to sandblast the part, wipe it clean with prep sol ect.
3) Color coat only NO PRIMER. The primary reason the paint fails is the thicker the layers the more heat retained, which leads to cracking. So only use color coat and only put on JUST enough to get coverage.
4) Paint bonding to the surface of the material only happens in the LAST stage of it curing. SO basically have to paint the cover, and put it on a shelf for a week to be sure its set or i could risk scratching it easily.
Seeing as i was putting a light color on mine this meant i needed to be quite anal with getting the old black off. Plohls cover took me maybe an hour - hour and a half to get to the stage pictured. My cover took closer to 3.5 hours to get it to the point its at. Part because i was being much pickier, and part because the factory paint was sticking on better.
Plohls cover
Mine
Manifold free flowing
I'm also thinking about doing the cylinder head itself in the same color, or clear coat. I haven't decided which yet. I also decided seeing as the intake manifold is off i paint it too. Now that lead to me cleaning all the carbon build up out...which in turn made me see how poorly the adapters between the throttle body and the manifold lines up. Which in turn lead to some porting work. I'll let the photos speak mostly. Basically the circles of the port were not concentric and there was quite large lips on either side. As we had plenty of meat to play with the marked out the lips and removed them, blending the change back into the manifold or adapter as appropriate. Tools were a burr tool in an air dríven die grinder and old fashioned files .
Starting on the manifold.
Two adapters, 1 marked one started. The manifold had the same lip (roughly) on the polar oposite side, with the lip decreasing to nothing and then increasing again. Hopefully you can see understand.
[/url]
Initially we did each part separately the put the adapters back in place and finished it until almost no lip was detectable with finger or eye.. This "finishing" was done the the burr tool, and it still quite rough, so will be filled down to smooth the surface out.
Overall finished, don't have a proper before and after, but the total cross section is noticeably bigger. Hopefully losses in airspeed due to bigger cross section will be counterbalanced (and hopefully overridden) by the improved flow of not having the lips there.
material removed
On the electrics side of things. Plohl help me / mostly did it go to a toyota Coil On Plug system for ignition. It was actually pretty easy with the NA8, but not easily achievable while retaining all the factory wiring connectors (:() could have done it but would have meant multiple connections. As i also wanted to convert to direct fire ignition we deiced just to cut the main plug to the coil packs on put a new plugs on both so i can use either the COP loom or the normal loom.
After using Jaycar connectors when modifying the MAF plug, we went searching for better option. Plohl ended up searching getting Deutsch connectors, which sh*t all over the jaycar ones for quality and don't actually cost much (if anything) more. Only problem is the mil-spec crimper you need to use with them is like 250 bucks new. :O. Lucky we had access to a borrowed one. While we were at it we also re did the MAF plug and also put a plug on he WBO2 controller/ gauge.
Finally, will also be upgrading injectors with the bigger ones i bough from Andrew with the car. Hopefully with the upgrades, the old injectors would have been running a bit to close to the limit for comfort.
Opps, forgot something. I picked up a set of NBA maxim works heads. I'm hoping these will help give some of the low / mid range back that seems to be missing with the 4-1 apexi and the IRTB's together. Unfortunately as you can see, they are a bit shorter than the apexi units so i'll either have to the new cat extended and flanged to suit or get a new system. As i'm also thinking of chainging the rear muffler to something a bit quieter i'm guessing the shop will say it is easier to do a whole new system.
That gets me almost up to date, hopefully be all back on the road in 2 - 3 weeks, probably running filter socks, then get a new airbox sorted and tuned. Will be interesting to see the curves.
/epic post
ok....where to start
Headwork
Head has been removed for the car (ages ago) and sent to wozzah for a cam upgrade, and port work. After dissassembly and inspection it seems the engine is not as it cam from the factory as 1) the face of intake valves had thinned down to the point where we couldn't do anything with them b) despite the insides being almost spotlessly clean (suggesting excellent service history as though by previous owner) the HLA all had either significant wear, or in 4 cases divots in them. So decided to fit 1mm oversize, wasted stem supertech valves and new HLAs. I sourced the Valves out of the USA as supertechs were a fair bit cheaper then the ferra (?) ones wozzah had onhand. Couldn't get a big enough profile on the cams to warrant new valve springs, so factory units will be retained (after being checked)
Turned out to be a massive pain in the ass with the sell having listed them in stock, but still not shipped 2 weeks later! so that's held everything up. I went on a bit of a shopping spree from various sources getting alot of stuff sorted for this.
Parts
Mahura Cam Gears, Gates racing timing belt and pulleys from mania (Same price as purchasing O/S). Water pump (more on this later). MX5-Plus coolant re reoute spacer and associated bits. Full aftermarket gasket set, genuine mazda head gasket and rocker cover. ARP head studs (for anyone interested the thread in the block IS M11 x 1.5), a 42 Draft Designs Stealth catch can. Magnaflow 100 Cell Spun metalic catalitc converter (2.25 inch). New slave cyclinder, Mx5 Plus Braided clutch line (deletes the factory hardline as well). A Hondata phenolic intake manifold gasket, Flyin Miata / Willwood brake bias proportioning valve and a block off port for the water pump hosing from Begi (the current system used a steel replacement fitting that i didn't like.
I also picked up another bonnet to play around with getting a cold air intake to come in over the radiator.
I'll put of photos of the interesting stuff when i get it.
Had a few delima's with things.
1) the cooling system. - I was very tempted to put a davies craig electric water pump and controller in. This would give me the opportunity to have the option to remove the thermostat and let the controller aim for a selectable coolant temp. I was very tempted to do this as it wasn't actually that expensive if you could do it with out buying any reroute equipment. In the end i just went normal methods due to being time poor and the new valves, HLA's and assoicated bits blowing out the costs far more than i had anticipated. Still something i very keen to do, but i just want the car back on the road at this point rather then trying to sort bit and pieces out.
2. The hondata intake gasket. - It's made from phenolic material and the idea is to keep the heat out of your intake manifold and lower your intake charge temp. I read around a fair bit an the opinion were fairly varied regarding the effectiveness. Particularly because the "manifold section" is so much shorter in an IRTB setup than a normal manifold. I ended up getting one, because it a) i did see some testing that suggested it was effective on normal manifolds at least b) i'll probably have an aluminum air box soon. c) the horsepower gains if it only gets 5 degree drop in intake temps will probably be worth it at the relatively small cost.
3) THe over the rad air intake. Trying to work out a way to do this while keeping the car legal rather than chopping the second skin on the bonnet up. Haven't really got to far on this and have put it in the later pile cause i want to be driving again. But basically option 1) Cut the second skin and bring it in between the bonnet and radiator. option 2) Change / reduce the rad and bring it in between rad and rad panel. This is likely to lead to $$$ and may not be easily done as i want to keep the A/C in the car. 3) Possibly delete the bonnet latch, put in bonnet pins (flush style) and again trip the bonnet where the catch used to be. Still requires bonnet mods but more likely to look like the cutout should be there.
Other things Changes / changes getting done while this is all happening.
New rocker cover! went for the square style cover.
Plohls cover pre blasting
Decided i wanted to paint it and tried to track down the mazda motorsport blue, Ended up trying to match the mazda corporate blue. Will have to wait and see but i think it might be stupidly close to the mariner blue (which would have been much easier to get).
A few things i found out in regards to this.
1) You can paint most engine parts with normal enamel paint if you don't want to use the High Temp paint sold at autobahn ect.
2) The best surface prep is to sandblast the part, wipe it clean with prep sol ect.
3) Color coat only NO PRIMER. The primary reason the paint fails is the thicker the layers the more heat retained, which leads to cracking. So only use color coat and only put on JUST enough to get coverage.
4) Paint bonding to the surface of the material only happens in the LAST stage of it curing. SO basically have to paint the cover, and put it on a shelf for a week to be sure its set or i could risk scratching it easily.
Seeing as i was putting a light color on mine this meant i needed to be quite anal with getting the old black off. Plohls cover took me maybe an hour - hour and a half to get to the stage pictured. My cover took closer to 3.5 hours to get it to the point its at. Part because i was being much pickier, and part because the factory paint was sticking on better.
Plohls cover
Mine
Manifold free flowing
I'm also thinking about doing the cylinder head itself in the same color, or clear coat. I haven't decided which yet. I also decided seeing as the intake manifold is off i paint it too. Now that lead to me cleaning all the carbon build up out...which in turn made me see how poorly the adapters between the throttle body and the manifold lines up. Which in turn lead to some porting work. I'll let the photos speak mostly. Basically the circles of the port were not concentric and there was quite large lips on either side. As we had plenty of meat to play with the marked out the lips and removed them, blending the change back into the manifold or adapter as appropriate. Tools were a burr tool in an air dríven die grinder and old fashioned files .
Starting on the manifold.
Two adapters, 1 marked one started. The manifold had the same lip (roughly) on the polar oposite side, with the lip decreasing to nothing and then increasing again. Hopefully you can see understand.
[/url]
Initially we did each part separately the put the adapters back in place and finished it until almost no lip was detectable with finger or eye.. This "finishing" was done the the burr tool, and it still quite rough, so will be filled down to smooth the surface out.
Overall finished, don't have a proper before and after, but the total cross section is noticeably bigger. Hopefully losses in airspeed due to bigger cross section will be counterbalanced (and hopefully overridden) by the improved flow of not having the lips there.
material removed
On the electrics side of things. Plohl help me / mostly did it go to a toyota Coil On Plug system for ignition. It was actually pretty easy with the NA8, but not easily achievable while retaining all the factory wiring connectors (:() could have done it but would have meant multiple connections. As i also wanted to convert to direct fire ignition we deiced just to cut the main plug to the coil packs on put a new plugs on both so i can use either the COP loom or the normal loom.
After using Jaycar connectors when modifying the MAF plug, we went searching for better option. Plohl ended up searching getting Deutsch connectors, which sh*t all over the jaycar ones for quality and don't actually cost much (if anything) more. Only problem is the mil-spec crimper you need to use with them is like 250 bucks new. :O. Lucky we had access to a borrowed one. While we were at it we also re did the MAF plug and also put a plug on he WBO2 controller/ gauge.
Finally, will also be upgrading injectors with the bigger ones i bough from Andrew with the car. Hopefully with the upgrades, the old injectors would have been running a bit to close to the limit for comfort.
Opps, forgot something. I picked up a set of NBA maxim works heads. I'm hoping these will help give some of the low / mid range back that seems to be missing with the 4-1 apexi and the IRTB's together. Unfortunately as you can see, they are a bit shorter than the apexi units so i'll either have to the new cat extended and flanged to suit or get a new system. As i'm also thinking of chainging the rear muffler to something a bit quieter i'm guessing the shop will say it is easier to do a whole new system.
That gets me almost up to date, hopefully be all back on the road in 2 - 3 weeks, probably running filter socks, then get a new airbox sorted and tuned. Will be interesting to see the curves.
/epic post
- Steampunk
- Speed Racer
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Re: sailaholic NA8
How'd you find out about the Hondata gasket? I can't remember telling you about it.
The heat-wrapping on the Apexi turned out ok if I do say to myself.... considering it was done when it was attached to the engine. I can still remember soaking my hands/arms many times to stop it from itching.
Oh, and re trumpet socks... I was going to install this if I ever went open-air:
http://www.pipercross.net/competition/products_px600.asp
It seldom happens that a sock filter gets sucked into the engine, but as long as I've heard it CAN happen....
The heat-wrapping on the Apexi turned out ok if I do say to myself.... considering it was done when it was attached to the engine. I can still remember soaking my hands/arms many times to stop it from itching.
Oh, and re trumpet socks... I was going to install this if I ever went open-air:
http://www.pipercross.net/competition/products_px600.asp
It seldom happens that a sock filter gets sucked into the engine, but as long as I've heard it CAN happen....
Last edited by Steampunk on Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Haha, i found the gasket through bulk searching of USA websites among other things. Miata roadster also do a thicker one which uses gaskets on each side of the spacer. But i don't think i have enough room to p;ay with to use that one (it needs longer studs). I also found some testing done by an engineer on his mx6 which was interesting.
Yah, that wrapping is itch stuff, can't imagine how itchy you must have been after doing it on the car!
Now you can see why it's been garaged for so long. (sorry for the PM aswell, hit that button by accident)
Yah, that wrapping is itch stuff, can't imagine how itchy you must have been after doing it on the car!
Now you can see why it's been garaged for so long. (sorry for the PM aswell, hit that button by accident)
- plohl
- Racing Driver
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Your's is heaps cleaner than mine
I'll post up some picks of your COPs at some point.
I'll post up some picks of your COPs at some point.
Cheers,
plohl
plohl
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Re: sailaholic NA8
haha, yeah as I said depend on what colour you want. It will be fine for a dark colour. If not I'll just blast it more....I was just running out of time.
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Did you ninja edit that Andrew? I didn't see the bit about the filter socks before.
I'm not to worried as it will only be temporary.
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I'm not to worried as it will only be temporary.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
- Steampunk
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Re: sailaholic NA8
I edited my post just to add the image, but in the meantime you wrote yours
Yeah it's only a miniscule chance of a sock getting sucked in, and I can only assume that when it happens, the sock is old and really floppy and doesn't have the supporting spring inside it.
Great to see the engine coming along as you said it would.
Oh, I just remembered, re bushes; forget about doing diff-mount bushes. Not only are they the most painful to remove, but the increase in NVH is most evident with them. Ask Mr Starlet & Saboteur.
Yeah it's only a miniscule chance of a sock getting sucked in, and I can only assume that when it happens, the sock is old and really floppy and doesn't have the supporting spring inside it.
Great to see the engine coming along as you said it would.
Oh, I just remembered, re bushes; forget about doing diff-mount bushes. Not only are they the most painful to remove, but the increase in NVH is most evident with them. Ask Mr Starlet & Saboteur.
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Hehe, yes I remembered that warning. Decided against the energy suspension ones, will probably save for some super pro ones down the track.
Cheers for you're input on that sorry I didn't get back to you. :sad:
I'll bring it around once it its sorted so you can have a drive.
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Cheers for you're input on that sorry I didn't get back to you. :sad:
I'll bring it around once it its sorted so you can have a drive.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
- Steampunk
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Aaargh you guys are cruel.... since you bought the car, I've dríven more MX-5's in the last 6 months than I have in the last 6 years.
So, so cruel.
But yeah, bring her around lol
So, so cruel.
But yeah, bring her around lol
- corners
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Car looks and sounds good over the mountain with that exhaust!
You must enjoy the RSRs, I know I did when I streeted with them!
You must enjoy the RSRs, I know I did when I streeted with them!
Steampunk wrote: Oh you've got Ohlins? You must like drugs too!!!
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Re: sailaholic NA8
cheers,
Cant comment on the rsrs too much as I've not done much 5 driving without them :-) .
Yah exhaust is great up top, but a pain down low, impossible to go quietly anywhere.
Changing the headers to maxim works ones and putting a cat in shortly so will see what magic
The exhaust shop can achieve. Won't be selling the old one till I'm happy though.
On some more news, 1 red 5 sourced me a ewp and controller at a price I couldn't refuse so will be going electric.
Almost finished working on the throttle bodies and inlet manifold. Think I will paint the manifold, still considering the head as well.
And on painting news....
I'm doing 3 gauges in the centre console. wbo2, oil temp and ?. Any suggestions.
So far I've considered
Was considering a vacuum gauge, can be handy but not sure if it would be useful. Ie driving around seeing if more engine vac in, one gear over another.
Or an amp gauge, seeing as the ewp and high wattage globes will pull more current could be an idea to keep an eye on the charge rate. The idiot light in the dash kings covers this also though.
A coolant temp gauge with out the dead spot ? Bit too far out of normal line if vision maybe?
Anyone had a gauge that had been useful? fuel pressure?
Also any good brands to match the na style of gauges. autometer is wining so far.
Anyone wanting to see updated photos of the head porting should check our Warren heath performance on Facebook. Hoping the shop finishes this week. Not rushing them though :-) .
Also been trying to chase down some centre caps for the Wats, which is being painful due to them having different bore sizes front to rear. That's a story for another time though.
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Cant comment on the rsrs too much as I've not done much 5 driving without them :-) .
Yah exhaust is great up top, but a pain down low, impossible to go quietly anywhere.
Changing the headers to maxim works ones and putting a cat in shortly so will see what magic
The exhaust shop can achieve. Won't be selling the old one till I'm happy though.
On some more news, 1 red 5 sourced me a ewp and controller at a price I couldn't refuse so will be going electric.
Almost finished working on the throttle bodies and inlet manifold. Think I will paint the manifold, still considering the head as well.
And on painting news....
I'm doing 3 gauges in the centre console. wbo2, oil temp and ?. Any suggestions.
So far I've considered
Was considering a vacuum gauge, can be handy but not sure if it would be useful. Ie driving around seeing if more engine vac in, one gear over another.
Or an amp gauge, seeing as the ewp and high wattage globes will pull more current could be an idea to keep an eye on the charge rate. The idiot light in the dash kings covers this also though.
A coolant temp gauge with out the dead spot ? Bit too far out of normal line if vision maybe?
Anyone had a gauge that had been useful? fuel pressure?
Also any good brands to match the na style of gauges. autometer is wining so far.
Anyone wanting to see updated photos of the head porting should check our Warren heath performance on Facebook. Hoping the shop finishes this week. Not rushing them though :-) .
Also been trying to chase down some centre caps for the Wats, which is being painful due to them having different bore sizes front to rear. That's a story for another time though.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
- plohl
- Racing Driver
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Re: sailaholic NA8
seriously going to need to tuck your engine bay
Get a decent water temp gauge - that way you can see make sure the ewp is doing its job as its range is pretty much in the dead spot of the stock gauge. If you can get a gauge with a warning light, then that can double as a "stop the car, the ewp has died" light.
Get a decent water temp gauge - that way you can see make sure the ewp is doing its job as its range is pretty much in the dead spot of the stock gauge. If you can get a gauge with a warning light, then that can double as a "stop the car, the ewp has died" light.
Cheers,
plohl
plohl
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Re: sailaholic NA8
Hmmm, ok. Might look into the mod a mod I saw to take the dead spot out of the gauge.
Pretty sure I have spare capacity left in the the ecu for doing something like an idiot light. If the pump "stops" is it likely to be able top be electrically monitored? Ie no current flow.
Would have liked to keep the temp gauge up at dash level. Might just have to deal with it, did in the last car I guess.
Yah no tucking till car had been up and running for a while.
from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Pretty sure I have spare capacity left in the the ecu for doing something like an idiot light. If the pump "stops" is it likely to be able top be electrically monitored? Ie no current flow.
Would have liked to keep the temp gauge up at dash level. Might just have to deal with it, did in the last car I guess.
Yah no tucking till car had been up and running for a while.
from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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