FFS supercharger serious doubts

[NitroDann]

Now first off, im not having a go at the guys who are looking to GB one.

But why would you go with an FFS kit rather than something like a begi s4 with megasquirt for cheaper, or some FM gear?

I really just dont get it.

I intend this to be a discussion not a war so please be sensible.

My view, Bottom ends are capable of around 250rwhp both 1.6L and 1.8L.
The FFS kit doesnt come anywhere near this.
The ffs kit uses some seriously shoddy management, the sort of thing people come up with in their backyard with bits from jaycar.
You cant have in cabin power control.
Far less fuel efficient.
To get the ffs kits to the bottom ends stock power limits takes a lot of things, and all of those are supplied with a begi or fm kit.
It doesnt have an intercooler, it has no way of controlling larger injectors, it has no intercooling option. It seems something intercoolerable and a megasquirt is just the much smarter way to go.

To counter the points that I know are going to come,
LAG
The tiny turbo required to make the same 190hp as an ffs kit does not have a noticeable lag in street use, on top of that anyone racing isnt concerned about it at these tiny power levels.
Price of replacements,
The garett T25G is the factory nissan s13 turbo, is capable of well over 200rwhp and is available for incredibly cheap, I got mine, rebuilt by gcg but never used after that for 200 dollars.
Price of power upgrades,
The T28 standard on nissan s15s is capable of 300rwhp and is available for only a couple hundred dollars more that the T25G, and its a ball bearing unit. And by the time you need more power than this a FFS will not get you there, either will your bottom end.

It seems to me that people buy these kits if they either have turbo prejudice (common with older people), or they havent been for a drive of both kits and the FFS seems easier cos its simpler.

Dann

[93_Clubman]

or some FM gear?

Which FM gear do you have in mind?

[gslender]

What's everyone's thoughts of the Rotrex SC kits ? http://949racing.com/rotrexmiatasupercharger.aspx

[NitroDann]

Fm gear... like...

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept=29
Anything here, with a MSPnp of course.

And the karftwerks rotrex gear is awesome.

It works like a belt dríven turbo.
No Lag but torque increases with revs, which isnt great.

As the miataturbo guys say, why spend so much for so little.

Begi manifold and downpipe, second hand t28, second hand rx7 550s, ebay intercooler, MSPnP and go make 250rwhp like a boss.

Just my 2c

Dann

[timk]

Apples and oranges. Drive both and pick.

[NitroDann]

Its not though. It would be if both cost the same and made the same power with the same ease of upgrading.

Dann

[Guran]

Dann, I suspect for some the decision is not only about performance, cost or complexity. Some don't like the vacuum cleaner turbo sound and then chuff of a wastegate. Not a big fan myself. On the other hand, the whine of a supercharger is music to my ears. I loved it in my old R53 Cooper S - especially after I fitted a CAI.

[Patrick Bramston]

I like both..Patrick ..QIK 005 & MX 05 SC

[Tony]

Dann, I suspect for some the decision is not only about performance, cost or complexity. Some don't like the vacuum cleaner turbo sound and then chuff of a wastegate. Not a big fan myself. On the other hand, the whine of a supercharger is music to my ears. I loved it in my old R53 Cooper S - especially after I fitted a CAI.

EXACTLY!

Basically it's different strokes for different folks.

The basis upon which each person makes that decision will obviously be different and will be a reflection of their own individual requirements, preferences and experiences.

In just the same way as Dann just can't get the whole supercharger thing, I just can't get the whole fizz, whizz, pop turbo thing. If I may be so bold as to say, I reckon this is a pointless thread really. Sorry...

[NitroDann]

I get that different people like different things. but the only differences I can see are,
noise, price, power output, reliability, fuel economy, and... without adding prejudice thats about it.

Have I missed something?

I just built and engine for a mates aw11, it has an sc14 that I welded up brackets for and I made its 2.5 inch cooler piping, its a fun car and the blower sounds awesome.
but if it cost 4 grand and made 40% less power that isnt the path that would have been chosen..

And I know different people like different things, but can somebody tell me what those things are, and even better justify the price and power differences?
Again, not hating just asking.

I do get the supercharger thing, I dont get the dodgy low powered no real management super expensive FFS thing.

This isnt a turbo vs supercharger thread its an FFS vs other options thread.

Dann

As for it being a useless thread, read this one
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=47417
nanotech had no idea that FFS was way way slower than a basic cheaper turbo setup can be.
hardly seems useless to me.

[Sean]

Reviving this old thread cause I've dríven lots of turbo MX5s, built a couple and dríven a few SC ones too.

Firstly, the cost comparisons are not too accurate, either route can be cheap or expensive, buying second hand turbo gear shouldn't really be compared with buying new SC gear, you always run the risk of picking up shady second hand gear (been there done that ).

Compliance is the next big issue - I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the FFS kit is 49 state legal in the US? That being the case it should pass our tests (The NSW in-service anyhow) with flying colours.

The powercard is not really a bad thing either, nor is the voodoo box that FM sell with some of their kits (basically the same thing). They do what is needed to maintain factory drivability at low relative cost. I wouldn't be too concenred running with one, and they are likely the reason they can pass CARB restriction in Cali.

The Turbo route will likely (OK definitely) be an easier route to more power, but it's not always about power, the feel of a turbo MX5 and a SC mx5 are totally different, I'm sure you'd have felt similar if you've been in turbo and SC AW11s, I have some good mates with those too, and know the difference is the same in them. Even a small turbo feels less linear than a SC, although they also seem to pull further through the rev range, even on a small turbo.

An SC fitment for a JR or FFS is easier and cleaner than any of the off the shelf turbo kits too (I know someone will argue that) but thats my opinion having been involved with both.

Oddly I've owned a good, reliable turbo MX5 for a good few years with full aftermarket ECU, emission complaint etc etc, and I'm leaning towards an SC kit if I built another one...

Horses for course - Can we debate SP vs SE now?

[gslender]

Lots of fun building a mini-SC MP45 too!

Just check out me blog for the fun I've had!!

G

[Magpie]

Off topic but I love the sound of a Lysholm twin screw supercharger (I have an 800M) it is music. However what is the sound like from a rotex supercharger?

[hks_kansei]

However what is the sound like from a rotex supercharger?

My understanding is that they're pretty much silent.
Which is one of the good/bad points about them.

Good for keeping it hidden
Bad for if you like noise.

[Russellb]

Just get both

t25 feeding into SC12 on a 4AGZE in a Locost ( Lotus 7 Replica)
Bags of torque Tonnes of top End

All Done Good Bye