Roll Over Protection discussion

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:56 pm

Yeah, not all levels of all activities in all states & territories require them to be CAMS certified, so depends on what you're actually going to be doing. There are a couple of good recent threads around here somewhere.

Jeo · Postby **Jeo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:09 pm

MX5 with a hardtop is still a convertible.

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:15 pm

Jeo wrote:MX5 with a hardtop is still a convertible.

True, but some tracks are silly like that.

I think Winton has a rule that if a convertable has no rollbar installed, you must drive with the softop up or a hardtop on.

Because apparently Vinyl and Fibreglass are strong enough to protect you in a rollover :roll:

Jeo · Postby **Jeo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:08 pm

Wakefield has that rule too. I was told it's more to stop you flailing your arms above the roof than a matter of it protecting you.

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:20 pm

Fair enough.

But having a rollbar won't stop that either.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:38 pm

sevenhungrybadgers wrote:
nanotech wrote:... after some shipping ressearch, the Hard dog hardcore bars seem to be only $800-900 shipped to your door internationally ...

That really does seem like the safest option at the moment. Has anyone here installed one?

Looking at the regulations for NSW Supersprints:
"All convertible vehicles must be must be fitted with either a hard top or a CAMS approved roll cage or both."
It seem to be ok to use a hardtop with a non-CAMS approved roll bar, or will scrutineering still give you a hard time?

You could fit and use a Hard Dog bar in a non race, non log booked car and it would likely work out for you if you have an accident.

You would not be able to log book the car or get a sticker on the cage with all of their bars though as they dont all meet the design criteria...for example the 'Hard Core' bar does not have diagonals that meet within 100mm of where the main hoop and rear stays join.

The X braced one would possibly meet the regulations but anybody buying one to put in a log booked car or planning on getting a CAMS sticker for the bar MUST confirm with Hard Dog the material diameter and thickness. The specs are in the CAMS manual.

I kind think that for $900 your local roll cage bloke could probably build one for that?

Guran · Postby **Guran** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:06 pm

sevenhungrybadgers wrote:Looking at the regulations for NSW Supersprints:
"All convertible vehicles must be fitted with either a hard top or a CAMS approved roll cage or both."
It seem to be ok to use a hardtop with a non-CAMS approved roll bar, or will scrutineering still give you a hard time?

The requirement you've quoted only applies to Type 6 (Time Attack) cars. Road registered MX-5s in Type 1 (Unmodified Production Cars) or Type 2 (Modified Road Registered Cars) do NOT require a roll cage, roll bar or a hard-top. Roll cages are only required for unregistered cars that require a logbook. CAMS approval for a rollbar is only required for logbooked cars and in this case, the 50mm head clearance requirement is definitely enforced.

Style bars are fine although they offer almost no rollover protection. BD rollbars are usually fine too, although the scrutineers sometimes do the rounds and check for the 50mm head clearance requirement. Acceptance of BD rollbars with less than the 50mm head clearance is at the discretion of the chief scrutineer. Nearly all of the NA and NB drivers who compete at NSW Supersprints have BD rollbars, and some are about six foot tall. If a road registered MX-5 driver gets taken to task by a scrutineer, they should ask to have it checked by the chief scrutineer. If they still get grief, calmly offer to make your car "safer" by removing the rollbar and running with no rollover protection at all ... then see what he has to say. :wink:

Zcootz · Postby **Zcootz** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:30 pm

I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down. Is this the same with the MX+ bar ?

Also anyone sprinting with the twin hoop MX+ bar ? Looking at the footage of the Cobra roll I've go to wonder if the single hoop bar is much safer than the twin hoop designs.

Cheers,

Mark

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:37 pm

Zcootz wrote:I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down.

Actually, it does sit flat.

It just requires the top to bunch up a bit around the rear legs.

The only time mine doesn't want to sit completely flat is on very cold days when the vinyl is a bit stiff. After about 5 mins though it settles and sits flat.

Warm days it drops flat straight away.

the MX5+ bar's rear legs don't reach as far back as the BD, so they don't require the softtop to be bunched around them. (from memory anyway)

sevenhungrybadgers · Postby **sevenhungrybadgers** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:40 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Guran.

It seems like for my purposes, if I'm not being a tight ass, the Hard Dog (M2 Hard Core Hardtop) should be the safest way to go. I'm playing it safe because I happened to roll my old Land Rover Discovery on a dirt road in the middle of no where a few weeks ago.

de Bounce · Postby **de Bounce** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:38 pm

Zcootz wrote:I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down. Is this the same with the MX+ bar ?
Also anyone sprinting with the twin hoop MX+ bar ? Looking at the footage of the Cobra roll I've go to wonder if the single hoop bar is much safer than the twin hoop designs.
Cheers,
Mark

The legs on the MX5+ bar reach further back than the BD Bar and are spread further apart!
The BD legs start higher on the hoop creating more angle which the soft top need to form around when lowered.

I have the MX5+ bar fitted to mine based on the info from HERE and would happily buy another if given the choice again.

Bizi · Postby **Bizi** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:18 pm

TVS (ch44) Sydney - right now.. Brown Davis (David Brown) and how they do race cages. On a GTHO though.
All looks VERY old school. Extra triangulation bits on this one.

Tony · Postby **Tony** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:51 pm

WRT NSW CAMS Supersprint regs and following advice from Mike Hicks a while ago (and unless things have changed recently which would be unlikely) you are OK to run with no bar in Type 1 and Type 2 as Brian has mentioned.

However... if you do have a roll bar in Type 1 or Type 2 cars it must be CAMS approved. No non-approved bars are permissible, hence the number of BD bars used. Not sure where style bars fit in; never really concerned me.

Zcootz · Postby **Zcootz** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:28 pm

So does this mean mx+ bars are going to have a problem in NSW?

sevenhungrybadgers · Postby **sevenhungrybadgers** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:16 am

Tony wrote:WRT NSW CAMS Supersprint regs and following advice from Mike Hicks a while ago (and unless things have changed recently which would be unlikely) you are OK to run with no bar in Type 1 and Type 2 as Brian has mentioned.

However... if you do have a roll bar in Type 1 or Type 2 cars it must be CAMS approved. No non-approved bars are permissible, hence the number of BD bars used. Not sure where style bars fit in; never really concerned me.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What, do they get kick backs from BD or something?