Jumping ship????

tbro · Postby **tbro** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:59 pm

So a lot of Mx's are up for sale and a few are the ducks nuts of prodsport cars.

So who is jumping ship and going Nissan or god forbid a Toyota????

I know of at least one team looking at the 86 so should be interesting!! and yes it will be classed as a sports car!!!
and Yes Toyota will be helping with technical assistance so the story goes.
so should/will be eligible for prodsport.

The Nissan 200sx is also attracting a lot of interest as people don't want or can't afford to go to Lotus/Porsche.
Pick up a drift car, has the start and lots of good parts.
Plenty of go fast parts for the Nissan and the Toy/Subby should be just as good.

Interesting hey???

Am I sh*t stirring?? Nah just interested.Me thinks that a lot of unregistrable mx5's may end up as parts cars.
Me, I'll wait until the 86 is released and then we'll decide what we will do.

Terry

Postby **Okibi** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:30 am

Top level cars are often advertised for sale in case some rich person wants to buy a championship winning car hoping it's all about the car and not their driving ability.

There's only so much people will want to do the same thing x amount of times before they get bored of it and want to try a different car/race category.

Tony · Postby **Tony** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:22 am

Yep, I noticed the same thing Terry. A quick trawl through 105.com reveals literally dozens of MX5 race cars for sale! Plus just about any other style of race car you'd like.

toppertee · Postby **toppertee** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:22 am

More likely money issues. Not MX5 issues
From a person who runs a business, the last 3 years have been hard and this year doesn't look any better. No so much free cash around anymore. People are having to start selling some of their toys.
Just my 2 cents, could be wrong.

evil_weevil · Postby **evil_weevil** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:37 am

CT's is up for sale, but he is upgrading his MX5 to something bigger and better!

and yeah, there has been a few come up for sale in more recent times.

I have almost considered selling mine for money/personal reasons and going with a kart for a few years, but then if I want to get back into racing later on Id be worse off money wise trying find a car to start again.

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:51 pm

From what I have heard Karting is not that much cheaper if you want to be a winner.

Motorsport in Australia has a problem and not enough people in the places than can change it can see it. Entry numbers are down, there are no spectators, there are no sponsors, there is little or no press coverage. People have to be much more careful with their money and there are other forms of car based fun that are cheaper.

evil_weevil · Postby **evil_weevil** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Oh i'd never be a winner, even against some 10yo's they'd beat me out there in karts!! haha

was looking at it from a hobby wise to have fun and save money, i think in long run wouldnt work out.

MRA seems to be getting bigger in NSW but that is the superTT class while the MX5 challenge I can agree with on you that deviant, back in 2009 they had fields of 15+ cars.

now the most we had last year was 9.
this first round has 3 MX5's and 30+ superTT entrants.

sad times

CT · Postby CT » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:15 pm

We've seen 200SXs come and go in prod sports with little success. Legally configured they struggle. There is only one in Prod Sports that is competitive and it is a highly developed car dríven by a top steerer. The new Toyobaru on paper looks underpowered so I would be interested to see where it has success. Perhaps in production cars (group 3E) but I doubt it would be much chop in production sports (group 2 cars). After 10 years racing an MX5, I am moving up to a class A car hence my sellout. People sell race cars for lots of reasons, I'll give you an example, my old black car is on my105 at the moment too, painted orange like my current car. The guy who bought it off me, took it to wakefield, did a whole day and did an epic 1:28 in it, crapped himself and sold it. Realised (in a day mind you.....) that racing was not for him...and that was just a club sprint day. That car had done a 1:08.......so there are many reasons why people sell race cars. For some people, it's a pipe dream, for others, it's a destiny.

fish · Postby **fish** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:38 pm

Well i am selling mine purely for the $$$. I am flat broke ..It is a championship winning car and should be priced a lot higher but like i said ....me broke ..loved racing it loved the people . If i could find a way to continue racing it i would but a lotto win or a relative dying seem like the only way that can happen atm ...

deviant · Postby **deviant** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:13 pm

I think Australia needs some genuine entry level motorsport and a better route to encourage new people in.

Trackdays are popular but carry a lot of cost with licences and needing an extinguisher etc. In the rest of the worl dyou just rock up with a car, helmet and your road licence and off you go. They dont even care about passengers etc.

We need a national series that is really really basic. We are talking road cars with roll cages here. Control tyres and zero mods aloud, ECU's swapped between races etc. Perhaps RWD V FWD, non turbo only. MX5's V Civics or Silvias or something like that.

With a light, low powered, under tyred and under braked car there will be a lot of close racing that teaches the drivers a lot for their future racing and running costs will be low. Speeds will be low but who gives a sh*t if you get to run nose to tail for a full race.

Guran · Postby **Guran** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:24 pm

deviant wrote:I think Australia needs some genuine entry level motorsport and a better route to encourage new people in.

It doesn't get much cheaper or more "entry level" than running a stock NA6 at club trackdays and/or supersprints. You're still talking about a significant sum of money each year - my 2011 season cost me about $8k all up. Motorsport ain't cheap!

Trackdays are popular but carry a lot of cost with licences and needing an extinguisher etc. In the rest of the worl dyou just rock up with a car, helmet and your road licence and off you go. They dont even care about passengers etc.

CAMS L2S is about $100 per year, and a fire extinguisher costs about $30. OK a race licence costs a bit more. Surely that's not a major financial impedient? A much more significant factor is the entry fees for sprint/race events - typically in the range of $150-$250 per day. But then I understand that the fees in Australia are MUCH lower than anywhere in Europe.

We need a national series that is really really basic. We are talking road cars with roll cages here. Control tyres and zero mods aloud, ECU's swapped between races etc. Perhaps RWD V FWD, non turbo only. MX5's V Civics or Silvias or something like that.

With a light, low powered, under tyred and under braked car there will be a lot of close racing that teaches the drivers a lot for their future racing and running costs will be low. Speeds will be low but who gives a sh*t if you get to run nose to tail for a full race.

Sounds like a great idea. I like what they've done in the States with "Spec Miata", but doubt it would be viable in Australia (witness the struggles of MX-5 Challenge in NSW). But if you were to take that concept and roll it out across several different makes & models ... all with the aim of normalising car performance ... I agree that you'd have an excellent race series with a good chance of making it viable. But don't expect it to be cheap. I suspect you'd still need at least a $10k budget per year, which would probably only cover events in one state - travel interstate distances and costs would climb.

evil_weevil · Postby **evil_weevil** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:21 pm

MRA is cheap for entry level racing, thats why I do it!

around 230 for entry
100 a year for AASA national licence (need a medical + prev track exp or do a speed off streets day)

depending on entrants, you can enter your MX5 in superTT and MX5 class.
lots of track time.

Yesterday I was up against 3 pugs, another MX5, a proton satria GTI, swift GTI, SSS pulsar etc
good mix of cars and good battles.

they have 4 rounds a year plus the Wakie 300 support race

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:32 pm

Re Karting, it isn't really easy to compare cost as against racing cars. I was chatting with CT on Saturday about it.

I race karts but I want to win so I spend the coin. Up front investment is the killer, just like racing cars. The difference here is the cost to buy a truly competitive package. It is MUCH lower than buying a car. Fish's car, for example, is apparently a quick car that is ready to win in the hands of the right driver. It is a 2F car so that would make it (theoretically) one of the cheaper door-to-door categories to race (and IMO it isn't fair to compare karting to something like super sprints where there is no real door-to-door involved). He is after $19k and that is a steal.

Compare this to a TAG sprint kart. A race-tested and championship proven package, ready to go second hand, will fetch $6k-$7k tops. In reality, you are paying $1-2k here for the vicarious glory attaching itself to the kart from the previous driver as the exact same package, bought from a mug who never won anything would fetch $4-5k tops. With this, if you are good enough, you could win up to state championship level or perhaps even nationals (the current national champion Cian Fothergill won the Australian Leopard title with an untouched, out-of-the-box engine the same as is on my kart).

A BRAND NEW package can be had for as little as $7.5k for a quality Australian chassis, or up to $9k if you want the shiniest new Italian chassis available. This generally also buys you the extended after-sales setup assistance you need to get up to pace. This is pretty much the most expensive class you can race too, at least until you get into international standard CIK or shifter karts. Buy a Clubman or National class kart and the costs can be as little as half of this (but they really aren't as fun either).

Just like racing cars, you then have to factor in the extras - a trailer, tools, spares, a club membership and license, etc etc. I'd wager though that these costs would be cheaper with karts. Consider a set of tyres - $1000 for decent tyres for your 5, or $230 for the control slicks in TAG karting ($260 for control wets). Crash repairs are heaps cheaper too. Add to this that in NSW alone, I have something like 10 different tracks I can race on, and six of these are within 3 hours of Sydney. You could race every weekend if you wanted to.

It isn't low rent racing either. Come to a meeting and see for yourself (if anyone is really interested, I am racing at Lithgow track on 25-26 February). I run full GPS track mapping and data analysis, and we run 4-5 races in a typical day of racing (around 1 to 1.5 hour of wheel-to-wheel track time on an average race day, plus setup time and practice). Chassis setup is an artform as there are literally dozens of things you can play with. Competition is tough and there are some bloody good drivers doing the rounds.

Finally, what is sometimes important for those of us with little support network in racing, I can go to a meeting and do everything myself. I can load and unload my kart and trailer, do all maintenance, get to the grid, on the track, back in and back to the pits with no pit crew at all. Electric start karts are the best thing to happen to karting for decades.

That said, if I had the money, I'd race cars in a split second. But I could never be competitive on my budget and I am not so interested in just going out and cutting laps in mid-pack or at the rear of the field...

EDIT: If anyone out there is interested in learning more, shoot me a PM with your number - id be happy to talk you through it, warts and all

evil_weevil · Postby **evil_weevil** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:53 pm

when is the next time you are going to Newcastle Karting Track?

shoot me a pm when u do!
Cheers,
Chris

zossy1 · Postby **zossy1** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:30 pm

evil_weevil wrote:when is the next time you are going to Newcastle Karting Track?

Hmm, probably not until 17 June when the TAG Super Series comes to town - i'll try to file that one away. Most of my racing will be at Lithgow this year, except for the TAG Super Series meets and (possibly) the closed state titles, Wollongong in June...