1.8 BP Engine Removal - to those who have done this

[marty085]

Hey so I was planning on removing my 1.8 BP Engine with the help of my dad and a loaner engine hoist (thanks Hjt, we'll talk about this) in November.. and taking the whole thing to LW Parry engine reconditioning because they'll dismantle for free and provide a quote and I can go in and look at it and discuss the options with them (no word on whether they'll put it back together for free if i decide not to use them though lol! might end up with a bunch of parts) - my dad is in his mid 60s and whilst not a mechanic he's an engineer so has a sharp mind and has worked on every car he's ever owned. With the help of the Rod Grainger Enthusiasts manual (orange cover) we thought we could tackle the R&R ourselves to save $1k.

QUs for anybody who has done this before:

1. How long should we expect this to take (removal only)? One full weekend? Two full weekends?
2. Should we take tranny out also - Manual says this is easiest.. I was gonna go with the manual's recommendation.
3. Is it extraordinarily difficult and problematic? On a 1994 car are we likely to damage components that may not like rough treatment and pulling apart? e.g Brittle plastic connectors etc?
4. Is there anybody in southern sydney who has done this before successfully (perhaps a couple of times) who actually enjoys doing it and wants to spend a weekend or two helping us out? Or even a few hours at the most difficult stages.

Alternatives:
5. Should i just pay the money and get it done and save the time.
6. Should i remove head only (1 wkend also? 2?) and go from there.

Cheers
Marty

P.S. engine problems are not confirmed but at the least probably worn valve stem seals apparently and possible worn piston rings (some black smoke on heavy accel according to Hjt) and all my water hoses starting to spring holes so was gonna do them all at the same time it's out, plus timing belts of course. etc. etc, maybe even an oil filter relocation kit.

[manga_blue]

1. How long should we expect this to take (removal only)? One full weekend? Two full weekends?
mrs manga and I have done it in less than a day and also refitted one in less than a day. You need to buy/borrow/hire an engine hoist and 4 safe car stands

2. Should we take tranny out also - Manual says this is easiest.. I was gonna go with the manual's recommendation.
yes, PITA to separate engine and gearbox in the car. Full (correct) instructions are in the Mazda factory workshop manuals in the technical guides section of this forum. I don't trust aftermarket manuals. The NA6 procedures are pretty much identical to NA8 ones. pm me with your email address if you can't download it.

3. Is it extraordinarily difficult and problematic? On a 1994 car are we likely to damage components that may not like rough treatment and pulling apart? e.g Brittle plastic connectors etc?
not if you take care. I usually remove anything breakable that might get in the way first, including the coilpack for an NA8

4. Is there anybody in southern sydney who has done this before successfully (perhaps a couple of times) who actually enjoys doing it and wants to spend a weekend or two helping us out? Or even a few hours at the most difficult stages.
not me

Alternatives:
5. Should i just pay the money and get it done and save the time.
up to you

6. Should i remove head only (1 wkend also? 2?) and go from there.
2-4 hours to remove head

P.S. engine problems are not confirmed but at the least probably worn valve stem seals apparently and possible worn piston rings (some black smoke on heavy accel according to Hjt) and all my water hoses starting to spring holes so was gonna do them all at the same time it's out, plus timing belts of course. etc. etc, maybe even an oil filter relocation kit.
you should also price a replacement motor. there's a lot of money in rebuilding. you only do it if you have the skill to make a better motor than what you can buy.

[zossy1]

+1 to Manga's comments. Patience is the key. It is not hard but it takes time.

If you had a car hoist, i'd be suggesting dropping the crossmember as that is probably the easiest way to get the engine out (and makes gearbox removal unnecessary). However, with the gearbox removed, it is not that big a deal to pull it out the top.

EDIT: I seem to recall that at some stage in my past, I DID manage to get an MX5 engine and gearbox out the top whilst still mated together -but from memory it wasn't worth the effort.

And yeah - I strongly suggest marking the plugs on the loom before disconnecting everything so that you know what goes where when you re-install.

[daffyflyer]

Some assorted tips

Label EVERYTHING, hoses, wires etc. If its a bolt or something that comes off the car, it goes in a labeled tray or baggy noting where it came from

Do take the engine and gearbox out as one unit.

Expect the PPF bolts to be super hard to get off.

If you do rebuild it yourself, be super fastidious, take the time to get it right, and your work area needs to be as clean as a damned operating theater (I found this out the expensive way! )

Do everything you might need to do while its apart, for example if the clutch is a bit dodgy, its cheaper to replace it while the engine is out

[marty085]

Thanks for all the tips. I have previously disregarded the replacement engine option but I have to admit I am reconsidering them. A place in qld sells them for $1250 plus $100 delivery, says he's been personally going to Japan for 17yrs to select the best ones then brings them back here and tests them all again til they're hot incl compression and gives 6mth warranty. Reckons he's seen enough engines to know a good one. There is cheaper places but they don't test them. Maybe that's the best option. Full rebuild is up to $3,500 if I remove it myself.

[Hellmun]

I've helped replace an NB8A engine with the gearbox left in the car and removed my own gearbox to fit a new clutch. The hardest bits I remember were the two bolts on top of the gearbox, they require two really long extensions to reach and are super tight, expect to lose some skin as your right between the transmission tunnel and the gearbox so it's really hard to turn the bolt at all, especially when breaking it. Re-aligning the input shaft was horrible, it took dam near 30 minutes of jiggling and pushing to get the splines to engage on both cars. Other note is double check the clutch line when putting them back together, I had mine get caught behind the gearbox when re-installing and it pulled it between the engine/gearbox which wasn't noticed until it finally engaged...and you have to remove the gearbox again to get it out as the head juts out over the gearbox housing. Otherwise it wasn't too bad for a bunch of car enthusiast who have never been mechanics. Took a day to pull the gearbox, day to put it back in (ended up being split due to needing some seals/oils I didn't have) for just me and my 68 yo father. The engine swap was over about 4 nights from memory but would've easily been done in two days. There were 3 of us but we did some other work on top (e.g de-powering the steering for instance). In addition I think putting the starter back in with the intake-manifold in place was also a right PITA but I don't remember any other issues that havn't been mentioned already (we crushed the coil packs on the motor swap putting it in for instance but luckily just put the old motors pack in ). I think the injectors were obvious based on length but the fuel lines could fit both ways so might be worth marking (we had to trace the lines back to figure them out). I think everything else had a unique connector or the cable length to make it obvious.

One last thing, if you have extractors they make pulling the gearbox out a little harder as you'll need to canter the engine a bit and twist the gearbox down and out. Atleast with the 6 speed on mine the shape of the bellhousing was fat near the top and it fouled on the way down without lowering and gradually twisting. On that note don't forget if you leave the extractors on the EGO sensor needs to be unplugged....That's all I remember off the top of my head as far as issues go.

[rascal]

Agree with the two top gearbox bolts being a pita. Two long extensions and a uni joint helps to get to them..

To help line up the splines, have the car on its wheels, and put it in gear and rock it back and forth. The movement of the rear wheels turns the spline in the gearbox and it slides in reasonably easily..

[Hellmun]

We just did it from the other side, one person jiggles the crank pulley with a socket/breaker bar combo trying to find an engagement point. Other person is under the car pushing the gearbox on the other way. 2nd time wasn't as bad as the first but it was still incredibly difficult....even when it just started going on it was still really hard to move at all along the spline.

[manga_blue]

In comparison it's all pretty simple and straightforward to pull the engine and box out as one, including the headers but without the coilpacks. You do it this way because it makes it safer and simpler to assemble everything again in the workshop before installing it all together into the car. As Mark found, it can be nasty to get the engine/clutch/gearbox/starter all lined up right when the box is still in.

[droo]

I removed the head in just on two hours (remove belts, header and coilpack and disconnect sensor cables) undo headboards and hoisted the head off without a hitch.

Undid the 6 or so bolts from the block and gear box. Yes they were a betch the first time and the starter motor has one of it's three bolts which is a right *lady genitalia* to get to. Undid the engine mounts and hoisted that out without a drama.
I dismantled the block for the machinist to inspect etc. it's pretty easy to do and no special tools where required. Be prepared for a huge mess of oil tho.

I shopped around for a rebuild guy who I thought was approachable, answered my questions and didn't make me feel stupid.


Reinstalling was a breeze- *HEAPS* easier then removing. Almost too easy! (really)

Clutch change and flywheel machined, block reco, head reco and painted the covers.
All up was $2500 (had some stuff new ready use inc pistons/ring sets, & a gasket kit, I had a few hundred $ saved there), and this was two months ago.
full head $950 inc new head bolts, gasket match porting, 20 tho shaving, 3 way valve job thingy, hardness test etc, new stem seals, pressure and crack tested, fully cleaned (so imaculate!), Even scratched in my initials on the outside to make sure it wasn't swapped over and it wasn't!

I had also bought 16x new HLAs for 96$ as my previous lifters where embarrassingly noisy.

The block I had a spare new set of slightly oversized pistons/rings and oversized/undersized bearings for the crank but the rebuild shop didn't end up using the bearings as the crank was good and replaced with standard sized bearings.
The deck was shaved 4 thou too. Was machine washed and also came back squeaky clean! :-D
I supplied the fly wheel and new clutch (after machining the wheel), flywheel bolts n washers, front pulley and bolts etc to get balanced neutral.
All up, the block reco cost $1050 and was assembled and wrapped in plastic for freshness.
(excedy hd clutch was $400)

Putting the block back in was extremely easy.
I left the engine mounts off the block, hoisted it in, gave it a slight jiggle to align the cutch bits and within 3 minutes (I kid you not) I had the two top bolts in. Then fitted the engine mounts.

Putting in all the bolts and torquing the bell housing took less then 20 minutes.

Putting the parts on is a hell of a lot quicker then taking the parts off.

Good time to clean off the crud in the engine bay and clean the crud off all the ancillary bits. You won't need to wash your hands much during the install process.

This is also the first time ive removed an engine. fourth time I've done a clutch (previously all on small fwd cars which is MUCH easier then rwd)

I bought resealable bags and a marker and labelled each of the bolts groups where they came from. Individually tagged the longer bolts with a quick diagram where it went (driver side engine mount, starter motor, timing belt cover etc have one bolt longer then others in their groups)

Buy 5 litres of metho, a small scrubber brush, a roll of sponge from super cheap, degreaser and a few squirty bottles to clean parts up with. When everything is dismantled, give everything a good proper clean up.

Dont forget stuff like break in oil, coolant etc. might be worth while buying a replacement Eco temp sensor (10-15$) gasket goop etc, new hose clamps and latex gloves (the cleaning process and oil crud cannot be good for your skin, and the latex offers perfect dexterity and grip) oil filters, drip trays for catching your coolant/oil etc, and have some spare coat hangers to hold your air conditioner comressor and power steering pump out the way.

[marty085]

You guys are awesome, thanks heaps for the EXTREMELY detailed replies, I really appreciate it.

Seems manageable. Cheers

[JBT]

Beware of the heater hoses. Either carefully cut them off the heater pipes (and get new hoses) or disconnect at the engine. The heater pipes are very thin.

Engine and gearbox as a unit is best but you do need an extreme angle to get it out/up. So, you need a pit or car stands to get the clearance.

[JBT]

A place in qld sells them for $1250 plus $100 delivery, says he's been personally going to Japan for 17yrs to select the best ones then brings them back here and tests them all again til they're hot incl compression and gives 6mth warranty. Reckons he's seen enough engines to know a good one. There is cheaper places but they don't test them. Maybe that's the best option. Full rebuild is up to $3,500 if I remove it myself.

MX-5 Plus Totally trustworthy.