Advise on Adaptronic for an SP

[sailaholic]

If your interested in how it all works you can go to
http://adaptronic.com.au/downloads.html

And download the software and install it, you can then view the SE map included with the download. The map file is saved under Program files -> adaptronic Eng.... -> wari -> Base Maps.

Any decent dyno shop should be able to give you a safe tune if you ask for it.

[Tedsmx5]

I can highly recommend Adaptronic ecu's. The standard map will only work on a stock car with no added power gain. If you get Dave at Mxmania tune the WOT you can fine tune the rest with a wideband O2 sensor and time. I found the whole process great I learned so much and still adjust this and that (because I can). $1700 supply fit and tune is very good, the cold start set up will take time let alone acceleration enrichment. Any change to your set up will change the tune of the ECU so again I say there is no standard map only a good starting point map.
Ted

[Garry]

Badbong, last I heard Benny was using a Mania supplied ECU and tune after not being very impressed with the Chiptorque solution he originally tried.

The problem with the SP ECU is that it uses a reflashed stock NB8B ECU that was never designed to run a turbocharged car so lots of compromises were needed to get it to work and also pass new car emissions tests which are much tougher than those for used cars. They also needed to follow Mazda's guidelines on power output and engine longetivity for warranty concerns. I think Chiptorque did a reasonable job considering what they had to work with though as you know there is a lot of room for improvement.

As with any ECU on any car the secret is in the tuning. Most piggy back ECU boxes will do pretty much the same thing but if it's not tuned properly even the best ECU will be crap. And with so few SP's around running all maner of different mods it's pretty hard to plug in a standard SP tune. So finding the right tuner is the secret to success. Good luck with that.

I've had the pleasure of driving a properly tuned SP (no, not mine) and it was a revelation. It drove like a proper factory tuned car should, probably even better as it didn't have any bodges in it to meet emmission requirements. But the guy spent 20 plus hrs on the dyno to get it right plus more time road tuning. At over $100 per hour dyno time thats big money and it was still a work in progress. Lucky for the guy he had his own dyno tuning business.

[Benny]

Garry is correct.
I had the Chiptorque chip put in, and noticed no real differences, except to my bank account.
Then I had Mania put in their piggyback solution that was designed by a guy called Walter, who is, unfortunately, no longer with us.

This did make a huge difference to the driveability of the car and it ran as smooth as silk and went like stink.
While the outright power wasn't much greater, the engine never bucked or jerked when under boost and it was just like driving a proper, well-sorted car.
The removal of the airflow meter helped this a lot too, as the car now reads a map instead of relying on a device that was never made for boosted engines and is the cause of all the bucking and jerking you get in an SP when you feather the throttle under boost.

This computer has also been the base for extra boost and tuning after I had the pistons and rods changed out for forged items, and the last time it was on Mania's dyno, it put out around 186RWkW, so it does go very well indeed, but it is still very smooth, if you can call breaking into wheelspin in 2nd at 4K revs!
Since the last dyno, Daniel Deckers has done some work on it, and it feels a lot stronger now than it did then.

While the $1,700 sounds a lot for such a seemingly minor mod, it opens the door for all sorts of extra things that can be done to the engine, and it makes the car much smoother, and even more economical too.

[NitroDann]

Its good value as a modification, but its still more expensive than it needs to be.

Dann

[Hellmun]

Sorry to hear about Walter, here's a random bit of trivia,my car is actually running the original prototype ECU he built for Rod Clarke. Daniel contacted him after I bought it in 06 and they upgraded the circuit board, converted it to MAP then retuned the car. It was a significant improvement even on my NA car with what it did for my midrange and top-end. Believe it was the first ECU to work with the NB's ECU regulated alternator and had the SVT controller integrated. Took Haltech etc a few years to catch up and the ECU has been faultless since I've had it. Only criticism is it lets the stock ECU handle the rev limit still. 200rpm more would be so awesome at Eastern Creek....

I think it's more important you pick your tuner then discuss with them what ECU's they're familiar with. If your happy to do it yourself a megasquirt is significantly cheaper. You may even find a tuner who's happy to tune one of those for you.

[Hellmun]

Even with different mods maps will be almost identical, even when one car is stock and one has an exhaust 5psi more boost and an intercooler, a single pull on the dyno will determine whether it even needs half an hour of tuning or not.

Dann

I would've thought that too but I bought the full exhaust including headers with the ECU off Rodd. Plus I had a similar intake system and when I plugged in the computer to try it out my car ran pig-rich, backfired and stumbled at points badly. Both cars were internally stock 01 NB8B's and from memory he hit something like 95kw with his Vs mine doing 90kw. Not all standard engines are made equal unfortunately. . I really wasn't expecting to need to get it tuned on top which I could barely afford at the time...For a turbo car it may not be as noticeable but I'd still get a before/after run with a fine tune just to make sure the stock map doesn't wind up being a bit lean due to above average air flow or a fuel pump/FPR being out of spec. Or get yourself a wideband at the same time if your doing it yourself. It's cheap insurance against melted pistons if your already springing for an ECU.

In response to the original question it shouldn't be dangerous putting an aftermarket ECU in as long as the tuner is knowledgable on the car/ECU. He'll likely do as mentioned and load a base-map he has, then tweak from there based on how you want the car and the cars current conditions/mods. The stock computer runs really rich which has the positive effects of lower in-cylinder temperatures and exhaust temperature which reduce detonation risks. Every cars gets one map and it has to work with the worst engine off the production line without detonation. A tuner can give you an edge of detonation max power tune, or a nice safe smooth rich tune. When Daniel tuned my car he asked what I wanted, I said as fast/reliable as I can get for track work. So my car has a slightly richer tune with some timing taken out so it can run 7200pm on a 40 degree day without issue. Which it's done a fair few times over the last 5 years of racing.

[bear2230]

Thank you guys for all your help and advice on this. I'm going to go ahead with it in a few weeks.
PM me if anyone else is interested.

Richard.

[BadBong]

Thank you guys for all your help and advice on this. I'm going to go ahead with it in a few weeks.
PM me if anyone else is interested.

Richard.

Can you define a few weeks? maybe... Xmas?

Apu, Hjt and I were all talking about it and I'm sure there'll be some kind of discount (even if it's just on the kit) if we hit the magic number of 5.

I can afford to do this as soon as Nimo is sold... can we set a date to wait and if that date passes then we'll go individually? (I still need to research the pros and cons of this... was going to be a project for next year but if there's some savings on the installation and further savings on fuel economy in the long run... why not?)

[bear2230]

Hey Vic,

I'm not booked in with Mania yet. Nor have I even spoken to them about a GB but I'm sure if anyone can organize it. You can. I am happy to wait if that suits you.
I will leave for you to do your research. Give me a bell when you are ready.
I am actually quite exited about this one.

Richard.

[Hjt]

To quote a misquote.

I am actually quite exited about this one.

I'm pulling out at this stage, I have other things i'm wishing to fund. Happy with my cars current engine format. Thanks though.

[Aussie Stig]

"So as most of you all know SP,s can be a bit of a pig to drive at times. Especially with the T-Piece mod.
Backing off in boost can be really unpleasant."

The SP is not "So Perfect" after all.

Good luck with the fix

[Jeo]

Any progress Bear?

[bear2230]

Any progress Bear?

Hey Joe,

Update on Adaptronic so far.

(1) Seems no one else is to keen on a group buy thing except BadBong, myself and maybe Bryan? and I think Vic is waiting until he sells Nimo to free up some funds.

(2) I have bought another car in the meantime. Subaru Liberty GT, B-Spec and have been playing around with that for that over the last few weeks.(It is called Holly because Max, my son thinks the girl on the Sat Nav sounds like Holly Shiftwell from Cars) So haven’t really dríven or given Scooby much attention lately. That being said I’m good to go if anybody else wants to jump in early and get it done.
I will definitely get it next service. It will would be around March/April if nothing happens before then.

I’m sure Dave will have the tune perfect by then and let’s face it. It does need it.

Richard.

[Apu]

I'm good for it. Just waiting for a group buy. It's not essential for me and I suspect I might get more bang out of a lightened flywheel...so if no group buy on Adaptronic, I'll head in the direction of the flywheel.