Cost of CAMs

[NitroDann]

So you dont want the 'hastles' of monster cams.
And you only want something like 255s right?

Ok, so why spend 2000 when a pair of $440 regrinds will do the same job?

Dann

[project.r.racing]

Ok, so why spend 2000 when a pair of $440 regrinds will do the same job?

$440 = cost of cams + install + shims/solid tappets?

if not, then you are comparing apples and oranges.

[NitroDann]

Ok, so that last post didnt really add much, so Ill make sure that this one does.

The Camtech regrinds, are able to be made larger than the Maruha cams, and they are able to be made smaller, or the same size.

At 255, they wont be welded, they simply dont need to be welded at such a small size, a base circle reduction and the lash caps cover that. This is the equivalent of the Maruha Fs.

If all you want is a tiny 255 cam, so you can run the stock ecu and get a small power gain, why pay 2000, when a Camtech (or any other local shop) grind will be identical for 440.

Instalation costs will be the same for each.

Either way, I feel that doing cams before ECU, is pretty silly. I honestly think people are both, scared of ECUs, and are happy to pay the money for -Tomei/HKS/Maruha- sticker rights.

People have big misconceptions about drivability. Probably the origins of which are people buying off the shelf cams with no ecu.

My car runs away from your standard intake/exhaust 1.8 like its standing still, with zero drivability issues, it makes more torque than stock at every rpm.

If you want to spend 2000 for more power, get some 440 dollars 265 degree cams, shave the head to 10.5:1 , and fit a msPnP.
Nothing N/A and bolt on will keep up with that.

Regarding instal price for cams,

The process is,
-Leads off
-Cam cover off (13 x10mm bolts, easy access)
-Top timing cover off (2x10mm bolts, easy access)
-Zip tie cam gears to belt
-Undo cam gears (1x14mm bolt each, easy access)
-Mark and Remove crank angle sensor (1x plastic plug and 1x13mm bolt easy access)
-Remove cam caps (5 per camshaft, 2x10mm bolts per cap, 2 cams, all easy access)
-Pick up cams, pull out lifters, drop in caps, drop lifters back in, drop in new cams.
Installation opposite of removal.
Under 1 hour.
At $90 per hour shop labour charge, thats under 100 to fit.


Dann

[bootz]

Lets make it even simpler.

I want to spend $1000 for a bolt on mod, 100% reliability to gain an extra 20kw.

If cams can do it I will lay my money down..........

[NitroDann]

26hp...

At the flywheel?
Thats pushing it without an ecu...

What are your current mods?

Dann

[NitroDann]

20kw at the wheels for 1000....
its a good challenge...


From a stock car...
Doing work yourself...
DIYpnp, rx7 injectors, E85, head shave, intake..
Its a hard challenge but That would do it.

Paying someone else...
275 cams, and solid lifters with a jaycar DFA and a fuel pressure reg and 18 deg timing mod....Gee, this would get you close if it didnt hit it.

Good challenge.

Ill keep thinking..

Dann

[manga_blue]

$1,000 for 20kw bolt-on? It depends where you're starting from. If the bottom end is already tough, if you've got hi compression, if it's flowing, if there's a full exhaust, if the ECU is tunable, etc, etc then you can 275 add cams to fix the last thing that's holding it back. But then it's only $1,000 on top of $2,000+ already spent.

[NitroDann]

Yeah it is a challenge.

You can run 275s on a stock bottom end with solid lifters, an adjustable fuel pressure reg and some dodgy jaycar gear.
It will run just fine.
Driveability will not be great, but it will run and make 20kw extra. The question is what price can you do that for if you have to pay someone for all of it?

Dann

[project.r.racing]

Regarding instal price for cams,

The process is,
-Leads off
-Cam cover off (13 x10mm bolts, easy access)
-Top timing cover off (2x10mm bolts, easy access)
-Zip tie cam gears to belt
-Undo cam gears (1x14mm bolt each, easy access)
-Mark and Remove crank angle sensor (1x plastic plug and 1x13mm bolt easy access)
-Remove cam caps (5 per camshaft, 2x10mm bolts per cap, 2 cams, all easy access)
-Pick up cams, pull out lifters, drop in caps, drop lifters back in, drop in new cams.
Installation opposite of removal.
Under 1 hour.
At $90 per hour shop labour charge, thats under 100 to fit.


Dann

Ta, good info for myself to use.

[manga_blue]

You can't do it with Jaycar kits. The Jaycar DFA only does fuel. They used to sell a timing kit as well but I think no more. The trouble is that you'd still be stuck with a low OEM redline.

Unless it's an NA8 which you can socket, you have to have an ECU in there somewhere to lift the redline for cams that deliver best from 7,000 to 8,000.

[bootz]

26hp...What are your current mods?

Dann

See below.

$1,000 for 20kw bolt-on? It depends where you're starting from. If the bottom end is already tough, if you've got hi compression, if it's flowing, if there's a full exhaust, if the ECU is tunable, etc, etc then you can 275 add cams to fix the last thing that's holding it back. But then it's only $1,000 on top of $2,000+ already spent.

NB8B bottom is plenty tough
Wish to maximise the VVT system if possible, i.e no 99-00 head swap
Compression on the VVT is already 10.5/1
Cai under $100 secondhand
Exhaust: 2.25" pipe, Ralliart muffler secondhand $200 fitted

I must admit it's not going to be easy.

[manga_blue]

No, not easy with VVT, mainly because of ECU challenges. To run those cams you'd need to re-map fuel, timing, idling and reset the redline. As I understand it you can't do any of those things with the OEM ECU. So that means an aftermarket ECU. I don't know if things have changed in the last year but it used to be that Megasquirt couldn't support VVT natively. The options would be Megasquirt with an RPM window switch or else an ECU that retails for more than $1,000. The RPM switch gives crude VVT control, i.e. low RPM - full advance, mid RPM - full retard, high RPM - full advance.

[NitroDann]

Jaycar still do the ignition box.
The dfa will do fueling requirements, and I wouldnt bother with ignition.
VVT will still work and doesnt need changing.

VVT gets you no more HP than non VVT. Its not v tech, all VVT does is give 5hp more at 3000rpm.

20kw extra out of cams, get big lift, and minimum duration to achieve it, that way you affect necessary redline least, but google miata rpm crystal. That fixes the redline.

And MS does do VVT properly now.

Dann

[NitroDann]

NB8B bottom is plenty tough

The problem is it isnt tough enough to rev.

Dann

[bootz]

And MS does do VVT properly now.

Yes, maybe, but is there anything available for a "poor" retard, whose soldering sucks and has ADD?